Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

And of course some parents 'fail' their HE children. Probably far less statistically than the amount of children failed by state education, but that's an entirely different debate.

"Fwiw it is my understanding (based on reading a huge amount of consultancy documents passed to the government) that more HE children sit exams than don't,they tend to sit them at a younger age and the tend to get better results."

But that is because their parents are excellent at teaching their children. I would be crap at it, which is why I send DD to school. I don't think any parent takes the decision to home educate lightly.

Excellent post Martorana

"1in 6 children leave school without being able to demonstrate minimum attainment levels"

I suspect that most these children probably come from backgrounds where home education would be even more of a disaster.

"I still maintain you need a certain type of child for HE to work. Imo 99% of teenagers would lie in bed all day/XBox or at the very least be a tad pissed off they had no friends."

You have described my daughter exactly lainiekazan

Lol at 'a code'.

Natural to want to defend yourself when your way of life and beliefs are under attack, Tamer, non?

Many HE families choose to do so because their children have been failed by the state education system. It would be lovely if folk could remember that when they are rooting around trying to find examples where HE has failed. You don't have to go far to identify cases where state education has failed. (And yes, given the numbers involved in either decision, of course there are going to be more schooled kids that fail. But it's interesting how bias works, eh?)

I'd initially planned to HE for primary (not for secondary) and as a teacher have an interest in threads like these.

It does seem that some that HE are convinced is the best thing ever and everyone should do it and there's nothing that can't be overcome. Fair enough to believe if you're doing it but not always helpful for others weighing up options.

I often wonder if I'd revert back to HE idea if my daughters don't end up enjoying school.

However, when I taught at a 6th form college the students I taught who had been he'd did struggle. Partly academically as they didn't have the necessary study skills. Partly discipline add they weren't used to college environment and havingvto sick to rules and partly "fitting in" as they either didn't know how to or were perceived as "odd". It was a small sample though.

As a teacher at a very academic school I know a lot of that could not be replicated. 5x40 mins (allowing 20mins for admin, if that) by subject specialists is a fantastic opportunity and I loved it as a student. I was v. Academic though and see that might not suit everybody. I learn best from people passionate about their subject rather than self study. Although quite capable of doing that I'd rather learn in a group.

I had some lovely Hed friends at uni - they weren't studying but at another group I was at. V well rounded and balanced people. Partly what inspired me to hed when I had planned to. They have done ok but partly thorough having well connected well educated parents and returning to America.

What finally put me off in our case was just how well my daughter did with preschool (did a few sessions a week leaving option for school open) and how much she flourished from having extra adult attention, learning (through play) things in addition to what is taught her. She loved the routine and seeing friends and all the group activities.

Also I hung out with some he types locally and found the lack of boundaries too much for me. There is only one girl my daughter asks not to see and that was the home ed group one. They were very much of the children make their own rules and sort it out amongst themselves tribe and my daughter ended up frightened after being pushed about.

I quite frankly do want my children to have good sleep hygeine etc and couldn't hack the superior attitude most of them had (similar to the AP evangelist thread.)

Bit of an essay, but I spent years thinking I would HE, wouldn't rule it out in the future if school didn't suit or second child had special needs, but I don't believe it solves all things and often it's vocal home eders that put me off, amongst other things!!

There's pros and cons to whichever way you go down and currently I'm so impressed with all the things school is doing for my daughter that she wouldn't get if home ed. In our case.

I think following a philosophy in the face of practical reality can be misguided, and to fear school as somehow other or wrong is a shame. In the ops case, if she decided to use school for some children for some time would that be so bad?

And of course some parents 'fail' their HE children. Probably far less statistically than the amount of children failed by state education, but that's an entirely different debate.

Of course it statistically less because over 90% of UK children are in state education.

The reason that my primary school was nothing like John Holt'e examples is because, the part I remember best-aged 9 to 11 yrs, I had a really gifted teacher and he was able to explain things in a simple, logical manner. My mother is completely incapable of that-she can't even teach me to crochet now! She knew the answers in Maths questions but she couldn't say how she arrived at them!

All the research shows, that the children who do best in schools, are those who have engaged parents who support their learning. So to compare HE outcomes to going to school outcomes, you really need to compare children going to school with engaged parents, and HE children.

Lol at 'a code'.

There is a code of silence-'adults must be protected in their wishes'-you wonder how bad they have to be before someone comes out and says so.

Exactly Grennie-you have to compare like with like.

Similarly HE is an active choice. It's not usually comparing like for like- interested parents, active in child's education in state vs he would give a different perspective.

Hah great cross post with greenie!

Those who don't achieve at school, with parents who don't give a damn, are going to do even worse at home.

Parents who don't give a damn are unlikely to HE.

That was my point, Tamer. More kids in state Ed. More failures. I'm not entirely stupid (and if I am, you can thank my entirely worthless state education )

There are posters arguing that HE fails some children. Yes, yes, quite likely.

The state education system is failing masses more, but everyone's ire is directed at the HE community? It's a funny old world.

Yes, Tamer.

So why is your ire directed at the HE parents who are not failing, and not at the state schools that are failing the children who do not have recourse to home or parental advantage?

They would seem to be the priority, to me?

Exactly Grennnie and so they should be left out of those who don't achieve or end up in prison. Schooling is a partnership-if parents don't do their part the child is likely to fail. Most parents do a lot more than people like OP are trying to do-they go out, they play games, they read together etc.

I think they are making it a priority arabella but it isn't easy when you have to fight apathy or even aggression from parents.

Just read this -

"Anyway, according to Tania Berlow's spreadsheet, the LAs claim that 2.35% of the home educated children known to them are not receiving any sort of education at all. Another 3.35% are not receiving a full time education and 1.71% are not receiving a suitable education. This comes to 7.41% of children who are not receiving a suitable, efficient and full time education, at least according to the local authorities.

Another 4.51% refuse to have any contact at all or supply any evidence to the local authorities. It is a fair guess that many of those families too are not providing an education.

This is why I originally said that according to local authorities 8% of home educated children are not receiving a proper education. I also suggested that we should treat these figures with some caution."

homeeducationheretic.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50

Gosh that surprises me. Presumae the autonomous/watching tv and playing minecraft types wouldn't be in that statistic as they can justify their educational choices.

I had assumed home ed wouldnt have many parents not focused on their children's education in one way or another.

In schools? Of course. I had to leave a position for my own sanity due to the system being unable/ unwilling to support children in the face of parental apathy.

The state is never going to able to compensate 100% in that situation.

But why should that affect successful HE?

I'm teaching myself (again) to crochet. My mum taught me the first time, but I have forgotten. I have had truly brilliant and inspiring teachers in individual situations. And have been utterly failed by the state system in others.

It's interesting to wonder whether the individual or the state bears more responsibility for their/ their offspring's education. I assume that HE-ers as a majority believe they and their children have a responsibility to educate themselves, whereas (the majority of) parents of schooled children believe it it a state responsibility... It is a bit strange that the state are so reluctant to take this responsibility on. Particularly with children with additional needs.

I find the whole topic of education fascinating.

I think autonomously educated children will be in those stats, as the very definition of what constitutes 'an education' will be different. So they will appear in the 'not receiving' percentage. Which clearly those involved in the autonomous education would dispute...

I love statistics. (Well, I hate them with a passion, but they are fascinating in that they can be used to prove whatever argument you come up with, if you use/ misuse them in the applicable way).

The definition of 'an education' will be very different if you are a local authority worker, or an unschooler.

Simon Webb is an interesting dude.

Yes it is an interesting blog. I had never come across him before. He quotes some mumsnet threads about HE and getting into university, and says that the impression being given by some on threads, are factually wrong.

I'd not seem him before but it's interesting. Don't suppose you could link to the higher ed one? No worries if not I can search later.

I do wonder if home ed "results" are overegged somewhat. (Like my experiences of teaching home edders isn't the same as portrayed above!)

Oho, Grennie, that's Simon Webb's blog. Anyone following the link: you really need to read the comments section, and get a sense of the context.

This was during the Balls/Badman era. Home edders (including Simon and Tania) were making representations to government. Tania worked out what numbers of HEed children local authorities were claiming weren't receiving a full time and suitable education, figures that (a) were nonsensical in the first place (see the comments, and I think you can find more about her interactions with the select committee on the web) and (b) that had been gloriously inflated within the DFES and by Badman in order to support their case for compulsory close monitoring of home edders.

Please don't go away from Tania's post thinking that 8% of HEed children don't get a suitable and full time education - that really isn't what her figures showed at all (we all completely overwhelmed local authorities for FOI requests, and put together all sorts of stats about HEers - the job that Badman should have done in writing his report but didn't, instead preferring to rely on his own institutionalised assumptions about what sorts of education are viable).

This is his blog post on mumsnet.

homeeducationheretic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/dramatic-news-about-home-educated.html

He basically says to get into University, you do need qualifications. Kids might do them through the OU, or get onto an access course and complete that.