Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

With all due respect to the op, she has a lot of things on her plate right now.

LA should[and I am no LA expert], be checking up on HE families,say once a term. And having a look both at work acheived and having informal talks with the HE children themselves.

Needs. But that means that nearly half of HE kids sit no exams?

Bakingtins,

If you fail to understand how children can learn outside of a structured classroom and how many educational tools alternative educators have available to them and how many things can be used in many ways.

It is possibly a good idea for you to understand your own limitations and accept that the fault lies with you.

I do agree that there are some HE children who will have a good HE education.
But they then often go to college and uni, so do have to attempt some formal large group education at some point.

No seven, it means most HE children sit exams.

Why are you seeing being HE as something that means you have to attempt large group learning?

Surely you just do it,the same as everybody else who attends further education.

I have no experience at all of HE children who struggle with further education, I do have a huge amount of experience of HE children who sail through it.

Regarding he or unschooling for teens, and the many folk who consider this deeply unwise - buy yourselves (and your children) the Teenage Liberation handbook

My teens are schooled. Most days I wish they weren't - I can see it stifling their natural curiousity and them becoming 'lesser', more like societal clones and less like individuals. The curriculum is so narrow - and really, the subjects considered 'essential' could easily be replaced by a bazillion other things - the entire thing is subjective. And I have one heading for med school, one for architecture, and one wannabe physicist.

However, schooled they are, and schooled they will stay. Unless they choose otherwise and some windfall or other allows me to ditch ft employment.

I suspect the sniffier types on this thread (oddly, you could even say ill-educated, as their education has apparently not included definitions of autonomous education, or the understanding of what's 'unschooling' means, or indeed the capacity to look them up before making comment) are only that way because the op's grammar was poor - if they had read the same views being espoused much more eloquently by john holt, they would be falling all over themselves to appear right-on.

Even if your children are in school, and you and they are happy with the status quo, it might be worth grabbing a couple of john holt books to continue your own education - just to give breadth to your own understanding of how other people live.

This rigidity and lack of independent thought is exactly what scares me about state education. I'm totally the most conservative person on the planet, but I can still look at institutions and wonder about alternatives. How do people become so accepting of cultural norms? And so absolutely indignant when other people look outside of those norms? Scary stuff.

Needs. It can mean that 51% HE children sit exams and 49% dont sit exams.
Wow.

My children go to school and nursery, and also I read with them, take them to various classes, visit museums, go for walks on the beach - they learn from all these things. I have no problem with learning outside the classroom.

My question was what letting a 6 yr old play Minecraft for several hours is achieving, and how can you educate 2 school aged children whilst also caring for 2 toddlers and a newborn?

I do accept my limitations, that's why I am not home-educating my children, beyond the sort of activities detailed above.

To go through life with nothing at all to show for anything acedemic is hard.

Seven.

It can also mean that 99% do. Why are you so determined to read something negative into most children sitting exams?

A child in a state school who sits gcse's at 12 would be considered to be advanced and something to boast about, in HE circles is is not at all unusual,it is also not at all unusual to have very young teenagers studying OU courses inc degrees. IME it is unusual for a HE child to finish education with little or nothing to show for it.

Can someone who HE explain to me how letting a 6 yr old play computer games all morning is providing a suitable education?

By playing a game like minecraft - a child learns to how to build structures, read maps, navigate, solve puzzles, basic arithmetic, recognise colours, objects & symbols. I am sure there is a whole lot more but hopefully you get the idea.

Your sympathy is misplaced, seven.

If you believe that certificates are worthless, and do not credit knowledge, but rather prove you are able to regurgitate pointless facts, and do not prove you are able to think for yourself, why would you feel it hard not to have any?

(I'm not suggesting that's how every HE person thinks - but I know several who eschew testing for many reasons)

The 49% will also include the many HE kids running their own businesses - often having set them up earlier than their schooled peers, as part of their own educational journey.

Sure, it's hard if you believe that you require a certificate of x to do y - but in most instances this isn't the case. There is always room for non-traditional routes into employment. And those youth that wish to qualify in professions where tertiary ed is necessary get on and do so. In some ways it makes more sense than forcing children with no interest in trigonometry, and no intention of ever working in a field that uses it, to sit through years of boredom and stress. (Or worse, have 20 of them disrupting the learning of those that do want to know...)

Having worked in schools and watched teens with zero interest, I do wonder about the perceived benefits... Other than learning to do as they are told and be good citizens, natch. (And that's not always terribly successful).

John Holt was writing about schools in in the US in the late 1950s early 60's!!! It is like someone talking about education in 1950's harping back to observations in the 1910's 1920' as if it is remotely relevant. He was on all reading lists for teachers in 1960/1970s -I think they learnt some lessons from it! I had my copy of 'How Children Fail' in 1969.

I expect he is popular because he tells people what they want to hear-regardless of whether children actually encounter it.

Baking many people use games in different ways to those who just play it, games are broken down some are used for maths some language some actions and consequences and many many other things.

I know very little about Minecraft itself as I have never played it however I do know that one of my children's schools (a ofstead outstanding and very expensive one with very well achieving students) often uses it as an educational tool as part of a network with other educators.

Info on how minecraft is used for education in schools around the world:-

minecraftedu.com/page/

Before criticising home edders in such a blanket fashion, please be sure to check the changes to the Primary ICT curriculum for UK school children and the tool you are criticising.

Why is OK to play minecraft at school, but not at home? It's a serious question as DS is begging to be allowed a minecraft subscription.

minecraftedu.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Impossible to extrapolate and identify issues with current education? My kids must go to very different state schools if you can't spot the similarities, Tamer?

But that's great. I'm glad your kids are accessing their education in a way that makes sense for their lives. And I'm pleased you are happy with it. More of the modern HE stuff articulates similar concerns, of course - and I was referring really to his writing style and his pedigree, in comparison to someone to uses 'should of' being a more accessible read for pearl clutchers.

Institutions are interesting places. As are those who accept them unquestioningly.

Who uses, not to uses.

Needs. You dont know if it is 49% HE children not sitting any exams.

Yes, if those 49% all became seld employed for life, that may solve the problem.

fwiw, my husband has no exams to his name because of having been withdrawn from education before sitting exams. And he is self employed.
But he sometimes feels inadequate, even though he was capable of passing exams.
And also he feels somewhat stuck in changing jobs.
All of it a totally unnecessary experience for him.

From what I have read of John Holt his stuff is still very much relevant. The mass education system has the same fundamental flaws it had since the turn of the century.

Starting children younger and keeping them at school for longer seems to the only answers the UK government can come up with. Which inevitably means work the teachers harder and harder putting them under increasing pressure.

I find it very relevant, alarkin. But I'm glad that others are experiencing a very different version of state education for their little ones. (At least - I hope they are. And I hope they continue to. Mine have been in 9 schools, now, in different places. Sadly, JH's concerns still v relevant.)

Neither do you seven, so why insist on using that figure?

Because you posted it as a plus, when actually it can be a very big minus.