Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

thanks Bobby that was just going to be my reply on speech therapy

Educational expectations are not very high from the parents of HE children. And perhaps that is part of the point for them

This doesn't match my experience at all. I think all the HE families I know want their children to achieve academically and they do all they can to facilitate it.

Good language (reading and writing) skills -or the total lack of ability to teach them to very many children, is exactly what is driving families to remove their children from school and home educate.

It's certainly one of the key reasons we removed ours....and then of course to come to a totally autonomous approach so they are enthused by the things that interest them and gain the key skills along the way to facilitate those interests.
The schools were useless at teaching good language skills.
But that is witnessed by the writing and spelling skills on many a internet forum and in every day life.

I didn't mind if they achieved 'academically' or not.
I just wanted them to be happy self confident individuals again-to recover from the dreadful damage schools had inflicted.
Happy self confident people can go out there and get what they want in life.
Mine all turned out to choose to do course at university level and did very well, but I'd have been equally happy if they had replicated the success I see in self employed practical formerly HE young people. Though with DH as a father they were never very likely to be very practical!

My son's communication skills have soared since he's been home educated. As bobbysgirl says, there is significantly reduced pressure on speech and communication issues in the home and this obviously helps to raise confidence, which is a big part of the problem with speech issues.

As an aside, my son was refused several forms of therapeutic intervention because those HCPs always ask for input/report from schools as part of their assessment process. My son's schools would always write that they had no problems with him, which wasn't true. His last school even blocked access to a dx for ADHD, which meant he didn't get the medication he needed until we went private some time later. They actively prevented him getting the support he needed, just to cover their arses for not supporting him adequately in the first place. So there is no guarantee that a child who needs speech therapy or any other form of intervention will get it whilst the school has their say in it.

"Schools are wonderful places for children whose home life is severely lacking in some way, for children whose home life is unsafe or they are neglected. But they are far, far, far from necessary."

It is also a wonderful place for my daughter (age 13) - an only child from a loving, stable home background. She has far better and more inspiring teachers than I could ever be. She has had the opportunity to make friends and interact with them on a daily basis. She has had the opportunity to see and do things that I would never be able to provide.

We have been very lucky that both her primary and now her high school are extremely good schools that offer a rounded education with excellent pastoral care.

There is too much bashing on each side on this thread. Home educating is not for me. I am too lazy for a start . School is a far easier option for us, and that is why I have nothing but admiration for those who do it successfully.

Incidentally, how many home educators on here are parents of teenage only children?

Schools suit some families it's true.
HE suits others. As it is a parents responsibility to ensure the child gets a suitable and efficient education, it's right that the law supports that this can happen in school 'or otherwise'

If every parent received accurate information about their rights to choose, parents would be able to make informed choices about what is right for their family, at any given time.

We have been very lucky that both her primary and now her high school are extremely good schools that offer a rounded education with excellent pastoral care

Sadly Bunbaker it appears that luck plays a significant part in the success of school education. When it works well it is very good indeed but there are an awful lot of failures. The option to HE is vital for those children who don't fit the system, as well as for those parents who just want to retain responsibility for their children's education rather than hand it over to inadequate providers. Although I don't doubt that your daughter's school is excellent, that's not always true for other people.

Btw my son is 15, has been home educated since he was 9.

I'm very much with you, Bunbaker - I couldn't HE and I know it. I love my job, I don't have much patience, I don't have the right mentality. But my opinion of HE has been entirely revised as a result of this thread and, as I think I've said upthread, I very much respect the posters here who do HE.

That said, I loved school. I loved the routine and the timetable, I loved the bus journey into town, I loved variety of teachers, I loved my breaks with my friends. Perhaps HE wouldn't have suited me. But I am now convinced that for the right family then it can be the right answer.

Christ, I really have to do some work now!

I have every respect for HEers. I know I couldn't do it. I think we would have too many battles.

However, I them read some of the comments about 'following interests' and 'chatting' about topics and wonder whether we do do HE but send DS to school as well. It was this, I think that lead DS to come out with things like 'I wonder whether gravity is a push or a pull' aged 5. That is an interesting discussion. And we regularly have to stop him reading after he should have his light out. And he's an avid minecraft builder. And can probably tell more tree species than most adults. Do I need to stop having these discussions with him because I'm not HEing?

No...but you can spend as long as he wants to spend having those chats, without being interrupted by home work, or going to school, when you autonomously HE.

Up to the parents to choose what is best for their family.

oh and with autonomous HE/Unschooling, there wouldn't have to be a 'lights out moment' either..because he could read till he fell asleep and get up when he wakes naturally, rather than for the alarm to get to school.

Up to you to choose, what suits your child best.

"oh and with autonomous HE/Unschooling, there wouldn't have to be a 'lights out moment' either..because he could read till he fell asleep and get up when he wakes naturally, rather than for the alarm to get to school."

We get that in school holidays and at weekends already (sigh)

I know there has been some HE bashing on here, but I feel that there has been some implied criticism from some home educators towards those of us who are too lazy to home educate choose to send their children to school.

My daughter would be desperately lonely if I home educated her. I would obviously use a HE network if that was the case, but it isn't the same as seeing your friends every day.

I am a bit aghast at the suggestion that no child needs speech therapy.

We still have lights out in holiday time too - because, come what may, he is awake at 6am. And if he's not had enough sleep because he stayed reading for too long we all suffer the next day... He doesn't have an alarm going off then, and isn't allowed to get up then (apart from going to the loo of course!) so there's no real reason for him to have it so fixed in his system - but I remember being exactly the same myself at a similar age, so its not surprising.

"oh and with autonomous HE/Unschooling, there wouldn't have to be a 'lights out moment' either..because he could read till he fell asleep and get up when he wakes naturally, rather than for the alarm to get to school."

bobby'sgirl I don't agree with that at all. I think good sleep hygiene is very important, habits set in childhood can last a lifetime and teaching a child that they can read till very late and rise very late is not going to help tham as adults.

It's also quite "unnatural" it's only as recently as the 20th century that people would indulge in late night activity at all as before that they would not have electric lights and fule for oil, gas or candles was expensive, so as a society people would generally go to be quite early and get up with the dawn.

Your son is in a modern setting that I could argue is quite artificial, staying up late to read by electric light.
I have always valued sleep and the enthusiasm that we feel early in the day feeling well rested.
I'm not sure a future employer would be as sympathetic as you are.

I still maintain you need a certain type of child for HE to work. Imo 99% of teenagers would lie in bed all day/XBox or at the very least be a tad pissed off they had no friends.

There is a gulf between happy days with little children who think you are the greatest thing ever and time with a hormonal teenager who is unlikely to want to do bird (feathered variety) spotting and nature table all day. My ds loves time at home and going to museums etc, but if that were his whole life I think he'd be rather the poorer for it.

Furthermore, those children I know who disliked school, and some school refusers, were not the type to enjoy any learning, wherever the setting and however it is delivered.

I have not read ALL comments as it seems to be turning into a School vs HE thread - so I will just offer some advice from your original post.

It seems to me like you may be setting high expectations on yourself (and your family) - which as a result - means life feels like a constant battle.

With 5 children - keeping the place tidy, getting out and giving your children all the love and attention they need - something has to give. If you are unschooling then I am sure you know where the priority lies.

My advice would be to build a good support network of friends and family who a can help you. Do activities and trips which are easy for you - i.e. invite friends (or other HE families) to yours, meet up in parks, etc which are close to you, go for local walks.

The house will be a mess - there is no getting away with this - accept it and do what you can to get by.

In your heart you seem to have made the right decision - it will get easier as they all get older. Hope there is something here which helps x

You need a certain type of child, a certain type of parent.

But I also maintain that you should have high educational expectations else you shouldnt be doing it.

And the LA should be involved.
Just because they have been told that a child has been taken out of the school system is totally and utterly inadequate.

sulis my children's education is not fully my responsibility because they are at school. Partly my responsibility, certainly, but in partnership with their teachers, headteacher and all the outside resources the school buys in to assist in their rounded education.

Just to clarify bakingtins - the law states it is fully your responsibility.

Sounds crazy I know, but if you feel a school has not provided your child with a sufficient education, then in the eyes of the law YOU are liable, NOT the school.

It is this part of the law which make HE legal in the UK.

Sevensev - "high educational expectations" - Perhaps this is most appropriately articulated by looking at the guidelines for local authorities on home education? Please forgive the long quotation:

"2.2 Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the European Convention on Human Rights states that:
“No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.”

Parents have a right to educate their children at home. Section 7 of the Education Act 1996 provides that:
“The parent of every child of compulsory school age shall cause him to receive efficient full-time education suitable –
(a) to his age, ability and aptitude, and
(b) to any special educational needs he may have,
either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.”
2.3 The responsibility for a child’s education rests with his or her parents. An “efficient” and “suitable” education is not defined in the Education Act 1996 but “efficient” has been broadly described in case law as an education that “achieves that which it sets out to achieve”, and a suitable” education is one that “primarily equips a child for life within the community of which he is a member, rather than the way of life in the country as a whole, as long as it does not foreclose the child’s options in later years to adopt some other form of life if he wishes to do so”.

There's a footnote to the case law if you want it too. You may have an expectation that we should be educating our children to be "high educational achievers" in a way that is commensurate with YOUR values (what are we talking about here? Oxbridge? accountancy training? olympic medallist?) but the case law is very clear that an education is suitable if it equips a child for life within their community, without limiting them to that lifestyle. Don't demand more of home educators than is demanded of the general population - that's not fair (and of course we want our children to achieve their potential. That's why we don't send them to school because - for our particular children - school has not or would not promote that achievement. It's not that we don't know that school is available and most people find them the best way of outsourcing education provision, duh).

In what precise way should the LA be involved? I strongly recommend you read the guidelines here to get a sense of the legal limits and responsibilities of the State. Do you think they should be involved in a different way from the present situation? And if so, why do you think the situation hasn't been changed by successive governments to be what you'd like to see? (Remember that, towards the end of the last Labour government, Graham Badman's report, which strongly advocated a greatly increased role for LAs in monitoring home educators, was roundly trounced by a commons select committee).

We can be a bit defensive as home educators, because when you say "I don't think you should be allowed to do what you do" or "you all ought to have six monthly inspections to make sure your children are keeping up with the schools" it would have a real and - we fear - detrimental impact on our lifestyles, especially for the large number of HE families who have children with special needs (which weren't being, or wouldn't be, properly met in school, which is why we don't use school, thus saving the LAs £££). We have DONE the research into the law here, because we had to defend ourselves in the Badman era. We have DONE the research into the efficacy of educating our children in unconventional ways, usually because our children were so signally failing to engage with a more conventional style of education. Truly, we are experts on our children's educational needs, and many of us have been let down horribly by the "professionals", so we can be a little impatient with people helicoptering in and saying "you're crap. You're failing your children. School would be much better. And HE should be closely monitored and/or not allowed" when they don't know us, our children, our circumstances, our triumphs, our anxieties about whether we are doing the right thing, but knowing well that the well-meaning people passing judgement on us have, frankly, no fucking clue what they are talking about.

More children attend formal schooling than dont, 1in 6 children leave school without being able to demonstrate minimum attainment levels

Woooohooooo schools are great!

Fwiw it is my understanding (based on reading a huge amount of consultancy documents passed to the government) that more HE children sit exams than don't,they tend to sit them at a younger age and the tend to get better results.

They tend to be valued more as independent students who need less hand holding during further education and are less likely to access the benefit system.

My eldest has been playing minecraft since he woke up posted by OP at 10.30 this morning.

Can someone who HE explain to me how letting a 6 yr old play computer games all morning is providing a suitable education? There doesn't seem to be any intention to educate them at all.