Regretting taking kids out of school.

[apocketfulofposy]

Posting here for traffic,sorry.

I have 5 children ranging from aged 6 to 10 weeks old.

We always planned to home educate after reading a book about it when ds1 and 2 were toddlers,then when ds1 was about 4 and a half,and i was pregnant with baby number 4,i decided to give our local primary a go,partly because it was just that time where he would of been going and partly because i was finding it hard with them all at home (no family on either side for 3 hours,husband who works away monday to friday,rural ish area,i cant even drive!).

Anyway reception was ok,he liked it,made plenty of friends,dc2 and 3 went to the pre school and liked it,except dc2 had lots of issues with hitting other children and just general destructive behaviour.

When ds1 started yr1 last year he hated it from the word go,he still liked seeing his friends but he really noticed the change between mostly play to mostly lessons,plus his teacher left after a term and the new one was very strict and spoke to the children like she was some kind of prison officer.

Ds2 started reception and seemed to enjoy it but after a few weeks i was called in a few times about his hitting and destroying things,they said he just physically wasnt ready to be at schoolt hat much so put him down to half days,which was a bit of a faff for me as i was in and out all day but it was fine.It didnt seem to help though and he was behaving worse and worse at school,especially at lunchtime,but strangely his behaviour at home was getting better.

Add to this the fact i was finding it hard carting them all around everywhere and i felt crap because i kept forgetting to reply to things and i kept hearing all this micheal gove stuff,i just decided to pull them out,id been thinking about it on and off for a while and just thought do it,and id id it almost on a bit of a whim.

The first few weeks were great and we all loved the novelty of not rushing around in mornings and the kids have been playing all day,and actually one good point is that they have been getting on so much better.

But apart from that i am starting to regret taking them out,i miss the routine,i miss being able to take the babies to their groups and talking to my "mummy friends"(cringe) i miss being able to go to the shop quickly with just the double buggy,i also just dont know what to do with them,and the house is just such a mess!

I know these are'nt huge things but its starting to feel chaotic and i can feel it going back to the way it used to be,before school,and it hink i underestimated how much it did for all of us.I just dont know what to do!

Help and advice please!xxxxx

"3. Could you manage without support from HE groups? Is that the primary means by which your children's social and emotional education takes place? (Not sure that I've got the language right there - I mean their ability to rub along with other people, interact with their peers, work in teams, etc. Sorry if my words aren't right.)"

Some HE parents do manage without groups.
Either they live very rurally, but some children don't like big noisey groups, and prefer to socialise on a one to one/two basis.

Some families choose to socilaise in after school groups like St John's, Woodcraft Folk, Brownies etc

And don't forget HE children ARE out and about in the real world all day, not stuck in schools for hours on end.
Plenty of people of all ages to socialise with!

Streakybacon - thanks to you too, and many congratulations to your DS on his fantastic achievements (academic and otherwise). My admiration for both of you is boundless.

I agree with your answer on Point 5 entirely.

Another (sorry!) question, if I may, specific to the parents/carers rather than the children. Did you ever have any doubts that you were doing it 'right'?

And don't forget HE children ARE out and about in the real world all day, not stuck in schools for hours on end. Plenty of people of all ages to socialise with!

Which, now I come to think about it, is a much more 'natural' way of interacting socially.

"4. Is there anything about school-based education that you miss? Does the answer change with the age of your children? For example, as a teen my favourite subjects were chemistry, physics and biology, which I imagine are difficult to replicate at home (I mean the practicals, more than anything)."

No I don't think so, our kids did science workshops at HE gatherings, there are science experiments available on line, and physics packs you can get delivered to your home...
I honestly think the kids enjoyed all of the things that are available when you HE, rather than missing what wasn't if you see what I mean?
The NC is after all full of gaps-can't possibly fit everything in

"5. How much of the success of HE'ing comes down to the personalities of your children? Are there situations in real life where HE'ing works for one (or more) child but not for others?"

Not if you autonomously HE/unschool-the only way you can deliver a truly individualised education IMO...and if you deliver that, it can't help suiting each child.

"1. I can see that digging for worms (natural science) and Minecraft (problem solving) can be educational as part of a rounded overall experience. How much of the day do you devote to such activities, compared to say reading, writing and numeracy?"

Some days several hours, some days less. Reading comes naturally into every day life, as does writing and numeracy. It's very difficult to work out how much time is spent on different things as most people when they discover something they love will spend hours and hours on it then that intensity will wane a bit. So at the moment my oldest (10) will spend hours on Minecraft if we're at home, but many days we're out and in the warmer months we'll spend no time at all on the computer as we'll be camping or on holiday. She reads every night - I often get up to go to the loo in the middle of hte night and have to remind her to put her book down, so she does that for hours too :) Lots of reading and writing and maths needed for Minecraft too, by the way. Autonomous educators know there's no need to break up life into different subjects :)

"2. I can absolutely see that 20 mins of one-on-one learning can be just as beneficial as 2 hours in a class of 30, if not more so. If you have more than one HE'd child, how do you manage to give that one-on-one time? What do your other children do? (Mine, for the record, would interrupt constantly and smart-arse DS2 would try to do DS1's work for him - hence my question!)"

We do it as and when they need it. We don't do teaching, we do chatting and helping and playing and visiting and watching...It's a bit difficult to explain when you're seeing a 'school at home' thing. I could do school at home and I would have those problems you describe, but really that's not where the learning happens. The learning happens in the car journey conversations, in the discussions after watching a film together, in the baking cakes and writing birthday cards and saving up for a new toy...

"3. Could you manage without support from HE groups? Is that the primary means by which your children's social and emotional education takes place? (Not sure that I've got the language right there - I mean their ability to rub along with other people, interact with their peers, work in teams, etc. Sorry if my words aren't right.)"

I don't know. We don't go to so many now, but we did in the early years. We'd manage in terms of them learning to live in a community, certainly. But if all their friends go to school, then there's physically less time to see them, so it's more about the fun of being able to see your friends if you go to home ed groups IYSWIM than about learning about how to be sociable.

"4. Is there anything about school-based education that you miss? Does the answer change with the age of your children? For example, as a teen my favourite subjects were chemistry, physics and biology, which I imagine are difficult to replicate at home (I mean the practicals, more than anything)."

No. Nothing. If we want something, we try to set it up. A local mum works with the local Steiner school to have the odd KS3 science session run in the school holidays...he teaches a group with children aged from 9-15

"5. How much of the success of HE'ing comes down to the personalities of your children? Are there situations in real life where HE'ing works for one (or more) child but not for others?"

Success? That depends on how you measure success. I like to measure it in happiness and fulfilledness...it's easy if you HE to create that if you work with each child meeting their individual needs

Mine aren't teens yet so can't answer your last question

"Did you ever have any doubts that you were doing it 'right'?"

yes, all the time. Shouldn't all parents constantly question if they're doing it right though?

"6. Very roughly, how many HE'ing teens take exams? How do those that don't take exams demonstrate their educational attainments (in the widest sense) when they need to? Do they need to? I can see that HE'ing would be an excellent preparation for self-employment, but not all of us are cut-out for self-employment, so I guess that at least a handful of HE'd children do end up in salaried employment. Do universities recognise HE'ing without exams?"

Most HE young people do exams in my experience.
They are VERY keen to get on in life, and can see that often employers/universities set great store by them.
So HE youngsters are usually very keen to find a way to demonstrate their ability to function at the level being required-be that at university or in employment.

I have known occasional home ed youngsters (and yes I know hundreds personally) who have got to uni on a more practical subject using a portfolio...but that has not been my general experience

But there are lots of different ways to do qualifications, not just GCSEs at 16 and A levels at 18.

It's a bit difficult to explain when you're seeing a 'school at home' thing.

I am struggling to shake off the 'school at home' mentality!

OP said she was going.

she doesn't think grammar matters.
she said that everyone here was 'silly middle-aged women clutching pearls' and that maths didn't matter either.

Does she seem suited to home ed? I am somewhat concerned about the quality of education that her children will receive if they don't go to school.

"When your teens went to college, how did they manage the transition from HE to formal education? "

With the greatest of ease...the colleges round here love HE young people, as they have come to realise they are self motivated learners, who have chosen to be in college doing the subject, rather than just finding themselves there, because they don't know there are other options.

The college tutors reported that they got on very well academically and socially

Shouldn't all parents constantly question if they're doing it right though?

Oh God, I question (and doubt myself) constantly!

I'm conscious that I've highjacked OP's thread, so I'm going to sign off now for a few hours to let it get back on track. But I really, really appreciate all of your answers. You've opened my eyes to a whole different world.

some questions to all parents who don't think home education works in any form. how did you children learn to walk? how did they learn to talk and know what different things are?

we teach them everything they know from a young age most of it without realising, by playing with them and having fun. why can't education continue like that? we have taught them some of the most important things they learn already.

the answer is from you their parents.

"Did they identify any 'gaps'?"

Yes of course.
I had a grammar school education, and did very well there. And I am very aware of the gaps in my education.

But the HE youngster will have areas of knowledge that would be a gap for schooled teens.

They believe (having all gone to school first-before I knew HE was legal) that the education they had was far superior to that they would have got in schools (where they were all failing badly) and all plan to autonomously HE their own children in the future

"i dont mind,its up to them!"
this is not good. It can't be up to your children whether they are interested in functional language skills, the absence of which will disbar them from many rewarding professions or even the opportunity to study for them.

It is not up to my children when they go to bed, whether they learn literacy, numeracy or manners, or what food groups they are allowed to choose their meals from. I am their parent and they are too young to decide grammar doesn't matter, sleep doesn't matter, and sweets are all they need to eat. I feel very sad that very young children can decide not to learn things that they won't see the importance of because you can't do them.

I have nothing against HE, which can obviously be a very effective way of educating. but I have a huge issue with very young children having their window of opportunity closed to them because things of great importance are "up to them". This is making me very sad.

Op did NOT say that she thought grammar and maths didn't matter.

I always have doubts but I think that's normal. I want to be the best parent I can be (not just home educator ) and there are a lot of challenges out there. This is particularly true for parents of children with additional needs - Am I filling in all the gaps? Am I giving him enough opportunities? etc etc. Some people might argue that he is socially inadequate but that's autism, not HE - and actually he's doing bloody well for an Aspie and most people, on meeting him for the first time, have no idea he has autism. I'm very proud of that. HE has allowed him to develop and grow at his own pace and he's a lovely young man with a lot of potential to achieve. Had he stayed in school he would have continued to crumble and I think he'd have struggled to live independently.

Most importantly, in my view, is that he is happy, fulfilled, has friends and a future. His mental health is sound. He had none of that five years ago - HE saved him.

So on the whole I think I'm doing ok, but I'll always have my worries .

"How did their peers react to their HE background?"

Peer of one of my children at college at HND level:
"So, I spent all those years stick in school, where I didn't want to be, doing exams, being made to be quiet, doing lessons that I had no interest in, stuck with people who bullied me-not even able to go to the toilet without permission..whilst you spent them watching whatever you wanted on TV, for as long as you liked, or out playing with your friends, or sailing or playing rugby, and doing just whatever interested you...
and we have both ended up in the same place, on the same course-but you are the one getting straight distinctions?"

Reply: "Yes"

Peer: "Wish I had been home educated like that"

Ds gets a lot of that too, bobbysgirl
He's just joined a volunteering group and they're all dead jealous of all the opportunities he has, compared to the rest of them who are stuck in school all day. He has work experience and volunteering during the day, because he can fit it in when it suits him best. He's got a great little thing going at the moment, supporting GCSE Maths and Science pupils at a local special school. He wouldn't be able to do that if he was in school himself .

The question about how do children learn to walk and talk? Obviously many children learn naturally from parents.

But actually a lot of children do have speech therapy, not all children learn naturally. I have been surprised at the number of friends I have who have had speech therapy as children.

Your DS sounds amazing, streakybacon.

And now I really do have to go...

juule, she said this:

"To be honest i dont really care if my grammar is bad,i really dont,it means nothing to me,for what its worth i got a B in gcse english so that just proves i remembered what i needed to for exams then forgot most of it as i didnt need it any more.

The kids will learn what they need to,if they want me to teach them to read formally then i will use one of the many reading/writing resources online or even hire a tutor.i dont mind,its up to them!"

This is the post I find really sad. The OP is defensive about her academic weaknesses where she should be listening to those who can tell her what gaps she needs outside help to plug. She is saying "it's up to them" and I find that devastatingly sad.

Good language (reading and writing) is the skill that opens the door to some of the most profound artistic pleasures and rewards there are - if you are that way inclined. IF the OP's children are (I accept that she is not, fine, takes all sorts, I am sure she is very skilled and subtle and appreciative in other areas) then they will miss out horribly by having no one to help them build this. It's something that starts young and is built incrementally. She can't do it and is closing her ears to the suggestion that she has a duty and a responsibility to bring in influences who can, either at school, or within HE.

That's without even going into the career stuff.

I hope this bravado and defensiveness is just for show and she isn't really going to treat her children like this.

Educational expectations are not very high from the parents of HE children. And perhaps that is part of the point for them.

Youngsters who would be identified as having speech imparements that would limit them if they were in school so young-and therefore having to communicate their needs with strangers, when home educated get there in their own time...because they are surrounded by people who understand them anyway...there is no fear of speaking, and they just catch up in their own time.
~

Ditto in my experience dyslexic children who HE -the other kids read to them, without sarcasm or bullying, so there is no fear of trying...and the HE kid catches up when the time is right-and then leaps forward

Thank you Cinnabar - I quite like him