Are there any benefits of Primary school that HE can't usually provide?

[carolinecordery]

Hello all, I haven't registered my DD for Reception, which she would be eligible to start in September.
I was just wondering if you thought there were any benefits of primary school that HE can't provide. What things are good about primary school that are only available through attending?
I'm planning to HE and am convinced of the benefits of doing so, but want a rounded picture. It's easy to think of loads of things that would be, relatively, a bit crap about primary school, but is there ANY really good reason to go? DD's non-resident dad would rather she went.
Thanks, Caroline

There are many books, websites, blogs, and other sources of information where home educators have chosen to give the account of their days and show home education from the giddy-high of achievements to the warts and alls burnouts. If people wanted to full picture, they would most likely be better going to one of those where people want to educate and show what is going on than a forum which is more off the cuff emotive snapshot discussion. Obviously no individual can or should be used as 'the' point of view on a topic involving a group. Even so, I've found some of the comments towards "schoolies" to be quite nasty and really deterring away from what could be a good conversation on the topic. As a home educator, I've found many aspects of this conversation quite cringe-worthy.

I also would be interested in seeker's point of view on socialisation and home education, and how you think it compares to your sibling(s). Seeing as you chose to send your kids to school and others in your family have continued home educating, it brings up obvious question about personalities and individual needs and whether you see your family continuing a problem or are they now doing it in a different way to how you went through. As I have 4 (though only 2 of "school age" and one of those is only just), I have thought a lot about whether it will be best for all of them. It suits my eldest to the ground, but I'm wavering on my just turned 5 year old (though she is doing well, I wonder if it is for her best at times). I also think I am kinda getting what you mean about more than friendships. My children are very good at talking and playing with everyone, but their friendships and socialisation are obviously very different than if they went to school. I obviously debate with myself which is better or if one may be better suited to one type or the other. Hearing an adult perspective would be interesting as the adults I know who were home educated have not had kids yet so haven't gone through the same debates and considerations.

Seeker I wasn't talking about them being the same I merely mentioned that there was nothing on your list that H.ed children would probably miss out on (according to you) that my dd does not experience in her activities. There isn't just school that offers these items on your list. A common misconception.

non have you thought about encouraging her to join something like SJA badgers? That way she is getting to spend time in the group situations but smaller less intense groups than she would encounter in a school setting. Organisations like St John also encourage a lot of choices in what the young people do which may work well for her to.

Sirzy I'll look into that, thank you. I think it's a question of identifying what she's missing out on and finding other ways to provide it, isn't it.

Ok, academically... what do I feel that she's missing out on from primary school? Not an enormous amount, off the top of my head. Although I think that has a fair bit to do with the school she was in, which I wasn't overly impressed with. She seemed to have lost her enthusiasm for learning since being there (from Yr 3), and that was what I was hoping to get back with HE. I'm still waiting... We've done lots and lots of maths since starting HE, which DD was initially very reluctant about but is now enjoying. It was her weaker subject and she's coming on in leaps and bounds now. I think that learning in a large class when 'the teacher doesn't stop if you don't understand' is no match for tailored one-to-one. So that's a positive. We've been learning a language which actually covers a lot of stuff to do with English too; grammar, grammatical terms like verbs, nouns etc, exploring the common roots of words which has expanded her vocabulary.

We've dipped into other subjects in a more haphazard way, but I'm ok with that at the moment because the most important thing for me at this stage is that she is learning to be literate and numerate and actually gaining a comprehensive grounding in those - mastering the basics that she can then build on with whatever direction she wants to go. Lots of things we cover in a very informal way; just chatting and her asking questions, looking things up online or in books. Obviously there are things that she isn't learning because she's not at school. Equally obviously, there are things that she's learning at home that she wouldn't be learning if she were at school. I think it's hard to compare the two. Her class started a topic on India the term she left. DD missed that (although we've talked about India a fair bit). But instead, DD did a topic on New Zealand which ranged from flora and fauna to the history of the early settlers. Talking about James Cook opened the door into a discussion of colonialism (which was the point of the India topic). So we came to a similar area from a completely different direction.

If we continue to HE, there is the question of what we will do at secondary level, by which time hopefully DD will be thoroughly grounded in the basics and ready to deepen her understanding of areas of knowledge that interest her. The internet (along with books) is such a vast and valuable resource that if DD is motivated then I have every confidence that I can facilitate her in learning whatever she wants to learn. If she's not motivated to learn... there's always school.

Although I wasn't home schooled I was quite 'socially awkward' and found that was a good solution for me! Like you say it's about finding what's right to help each child develop fully.

Badgers looks great Sirzy - I've emailed them to see if they've a group near us.

that I've killed a rabidly active thread stone dead!

HE ers just want to be left alone to discuss important HE issues, not to debate on moronic topics so schoolies feel better about themselves!

In that case they shouldn't post on a public board open to all.

Someone did specifically say that to seeker, kittyflora. She would be much loved if she said that she was HEed and she thought it so much superior to school that she HE her own DCs. Because she doesn't say that, no one is the least interested in her observations.

You are putting words in my mouth SigaSiga. I didn't say that HE DCs couldn't share etc-only that it is much easier if you are in school and have to. If I have a class of 30 and they are all bursting to say something I have to choose one child first-it is good for them to have to wait turns and actually listen to others.
I once had a little group of 6 reception-it was wonderful in lots of ways but I think that it failed because they could get almost individual attention-they were too dependent on the teacher.
You are limited in subjects like maths for bouncing ideas and certainly playing games that go around the class with maths and the DCs love.

I am another one who thinks that socialisation and making/keeping friends are not the same thing at all. I wonder if some parents realise this when they are saying 'Johnny is so busy, he goes to swimming, HE groups, Cubs, football etc'
It is possible to go to all, have a great time mixing well without any deep friendship.

Exotic fruit I think most parents know the difference, especially H.eders who after always being told that school is the place for socialisation, realise their children receive this in other avenues. Until recently when lots of women went into the workplace it was the job of the family mum in particular and community to socialise children. Some people like to do it for themselves rather than source it out to a school. I still say the lists I see here stating what is difficult to provide by H.ed dd is experiencing now and whilst she is still in school these are all provided for outside the school, strangely enough. I feel schools don't socialise children at all and often find the teachers morals standards and manners questionable.

What a strange last sentence-teachers are like the rest of the population-you will get the good, bad and indifferent-just like parents.

I'm not sure they do. You can go to Scouts, mix well and it is fully inclusive but you are not going to get real friends by going one evening a week. It takes a lot more, volunteering for things with them, camps-etc.

You would see me out and about-having a great time with groups that I get on well with-they are not what I would call my friends-I just happen to be very friendly with them.

I think that some of you have rather poor schools if they don't put work into the socialisation.

Nonastemia hope it works out well for her!

And it's not, to me, about having best friends, or lots of friends- it's about getting along and working with people you don't like, or who don't like you.

It's about a pool of acquaintances with shared experience.

Colleger didn't address that comment specifically to Seeker. Correct me if I'm wrong, Colleger.

"She would be much loved if she said that she was HEed and she thought it so much superior to school that she HE her own DCs. Because she doesn't say that, no one is the least interested in her observations."

Really? This is utter nonsense, conjecture on your part, and why any attempt at civilised debate is impossible.

"often find the teachers morals standards and manners questionable."

Morals? What do you mean?

No, collager didn't address that remark to me. And nobody on this thread did. But I have been told that, in those terms, in the past. And other similar things have been said to me. Which is why I generally don't "out" myself as a home educated adult- at one stage I naively thought people would be interested in my experience, (there aren't many of me on mumsnet as far as i know)but I soon discovered that, because it doesn't follow the party line, my opinions and views are not welcome.

Colleger has a life and isn't chained to the Internet so apologies for not replying straight after you posted Kitty! Oh and I don't even understand what you're talking about!

Well, let's face it, Seeker is everywhere with a fairly ruthless opinion on everything! Gosh, just realised we're quite similar!

I'm trying to work out how one can form a deep friendship during a 15 minute break - the minimum if a child goes home for lunch - and a child who spends 8+ hours three days a week with some home ed friends climbing trees in Chiswicj Park. Yes, that was our life most weeks.

The home ed kid can't!

Oh I don't think I needed a reply, Colleger. Only said to correct me if I was wrong. It was regarding an exchange with Exotic, further up the thread.

Seeker - I haven't seen any negativity towards you on other threads, so had no idea. I actually thought you were a home edder until this thread. Speaking for myself I'd find your own experience of being home educated interesting.

seeker - were you unhappy with being HE? Genuine question.

I think that HE works for some but not all. Same with school. My dc hated it at school. , there were no friends, it was a miserable time. Socialisation was a non starter for him.

Therefore it was a choice we all made together that he would be HE. He loved it. It was a time he made friends, socialised with children and adults of all ages and was really happy. It changed his life. So for some it is the best choice.

Now on the other hand, dd has always been through school and would never have chosen HE .

It really is a matter of what suits.

So I don;t believe HE is the only way to educate, neither do I feel school is the only way. There is no right or wrong.

But i do get cross and defensive when people think we are forcing our children into a life of 4 walls, the family and a pile of books.

I don't really understand this thread There are positives and negatives to both school and HE just like anything in life - that seems fairly self-evident.

OP, I dont know if you're still reading, but for me, the negatives of HE are mainly the amount of responsibility that falls on me, and the self-confidence I have to have to do something so vastly different from the majority. But the knocks to my confidence come, not from my home experience or how my kids are doing, but from outside - others' (family, strangers) opinions and comments, and how HE is perceived in the media and society, threads like this that come across as quite hostile.

So for me, the main benefit of school over HE would be not having to explain myself, not standing out, not having the weight of responsibility of the choices we are making.

(The benefits of HE, the fun, freedom and family closeness, far outweigh the negatives IMHO )

Goodness, this thread is still going?

julienoshoes is presenting HE as a rosy alternative, because it is just that.

I'm not going to repeat myself again and again. I'm tired of it, and too tired after a lovely day with grandchildren and great nieces.

If anyone is interested in finding out the positives of home education, but are too scared to post here, you'll find a friendly positive bunch of people-with quite a few experienced home educators present over on the Mumsnet Home Education FaceBook page and we can point you to other pages and groups more local to you.
Come on over, you'll find a welcome there.

Having HE since the beginning, my only experience of school (aside from having been) is what I know from my friends whose children go (seeker's counterpart, if you will!). We knew many HE families when we first had kids, it looked brilliant and I really wanted that experience and freedom for our family.

So, from an "outsiders" perspective, the things I am glad that I don't have to deal with, that my friends do, is worrying which school to choose, bullying and peer pressure, school runs, juggling children in different schools, trying to arrange after-school childcare while working, children who don't seem that happy (parents' observation, not mine), children who are exhausted after long days, restrictions on holidays and outings in term time.

I am sure that my friends who choose school would say that those negatives are outweighed by positives (free childcare (esp when ill, that's another HE negative for me), space to do your own thing -for the parents! - facilities and opportunities, interaction with large numbers of people daily, being able to delegate responsibility for education and all the other stuff mentioned in this thread.)

But nobody is saying there aren't hundreds of good things about HE! Of coursethere are!

YardBroom - if the rest of HEers were like you I don't think this thread would have been going on so long. When you said about the cliche of 'forcing our children into a life of 4 walls, the family and a pile of books' this is the sad reality I have seen HEers do....that or doing nothing, all day and every day (except the odd swimming excursion)....and seen the abysmal results. Done well, done with the right kids, I'm sure no one would have any argument against HE.