Are there any benefits of Primary school that HE can't usually provide?

[carolinecordery]

Hello all, I haven't registered my DD for Reception, which she would be eligible to start in September.
I was just wondering if you thought there were any benefits of primary school that HE can't provide. What things are good about primary school that are only available through attending?
I'm planning to HE and am convinced of the benefits of doing so, but want a rounded picture. It's easy to think of loads of things that would be, relatively, a bit crap about primary school, but is there ANY really good reason to go? DD's non-resident dad would rather she went.
Thanks, Caroline

emandlu nice to see a well balanced post which does look at the whole picture. Your last sentence is spot on and all any parent can do. I don't think there is any perfect solution, it is simply a case of finding what works for the whole family.

exoticfruits...lessons are not observed by the Head. I wish they were. Communication between schools and parents is non existent. The introduction of mobile phones and ipods is ruining schools. Kids are obsessed with them which takes away their ability to 'talk' and causes the inception of bullying...it is too easy to type something and send it rather than say it. Teachers have no control with classes. Yes they are restricted as to what they can do to reprimand a child but they have NO control. Classes are too big. You have one extreme to another where abilities are concerned. Teachers only tell you what they want you to know. Teenagers have absolutely little/no respect for adults/teachers/Head. I have heard, first hand, how a Head shouted at a pupil (I was stood outside her office) and was shocked at how that child shouted back. It was appalling. I have seen/witnessed other schools behave in the same way as my work takes me to other senior schools. It is no different. The language I hear is disgusting.

I am so glad we made the decision to come away from it.

That sounds like a very bad experience but it certainly isn't the case across the board.

If mine were at a school like that of course I would take them away! I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole! They went to very nice comprehensive- those things were not tolerated!!
I would prefer not to be observed by the Head - there is no way out!

Emandlu- what a fantastic post- just the sort of thoughtful balance that we need on threads like this!

Nelehluap- more ill informed "school bashing"!

Re the socialisation aspect...yes, I agree...I was worried that DD1 would miss out socially but then again when we compared what good friends she had up against the nasty vindictive behaviour from others I felt she could make friends elsewhere and overcome this little hurdle and I'm pleased to say she has. She has joined an athletics club, a trampolining club and works two afternoons a week in a charity shop. She has already made loads of new friends, of her own age, plus I have joined the local HE group and hope to meet up during the Summer with other HE families...

seeker? Ill-informed school bashing?

I'm not sure about this partnership thing exotic. It always seems to be on the school/teachers' terms, and largely focused on trying to engage harder to reach groups rather than those that can help improve outcomes for the kids.

I think the move towards free schools is interesting. I understand a number of HE groups are planning to run some.

To those MNrs who seem to disapprove of HE. Unless you have experienced HE yourself with your own children and found it didn't suit for whatever reason then do not disapprove of it. You have absolutely no idea about HE, you have no idea WHY some of us HE, we all have our different reasons for doing so.

That's a silly set of assertions. I have loads of friends & family who HE & I'm always keen to chat with them about their reasons & their experiences. I can make my own private observations, too. I am very open-minded. You can't say that people like me have "absolutely no idea WHY" others chose HE because I have in reality heard their reasons many times. I also considered HE very long & hard before deciding it wasn't for me.

I disapprove strongly of how some of the people I know HE. Not that HE had to be how they do it, but I can see how HE lets people get away with extreme visions of how their kids should grow up; it quickly becomes a lifestyle choice.

tbh, it's the ardent HErs who I find are (mostly) tremendously close-minded about schools. Absolutely black and white tirading negative school-can-never-be-a-good-thing-for-anyone attitudes. That includes many who have never sent their own DC to a formal school, too. But I wouldn't accuse even them of having having "absolutely no idea about" formal institutionalised education.

I do too. I know one family that is VERY religious to the extent they restrict their chikdren's education and life experiences quite considerably. I worry about the Chikdren.

Round here the home edders all get together every week up to twice a week so the socialisation aspect is covered. My only concern for my children would be that I am not up to teaching them to GCSE level etc as I went to school over 20 years ago and can't remember much from then.

"just wish that HE ers were more prepared to present a warts and all picture."

I can't give you any warts. For me and mine there aren't any.
I've told you about the money, but that's it. And the 'pros' of a truly wonderful life with my children far far outweigh the issues of driving a much older car, buying clothes and books from charity shops. It has become a very rosy coloured lifestyle choice.
That's my reality. It's lovely.
Long days on the beach, when others are stuck in schools and offices. Building snowmen when the opportunity arises, rather than missing out because the snow often disappears at weekends and school hols...
Spending days/weeks at a time in the company of groups of friends, because we can.

A son who, in school was destined to fulfill his teachers predications (if he hadn't killed himself first) that "He might achieve Grade Ds at GCSEs because of his dyslexia, IF he works really really hard" .........who spent the remainder of his compulsory education years in the way I have stated above (plus the addition of unrestricted computer games/Warhammer/Fantasy role play games ), now on target to get at least a 2:1 in Psychology at a good Uni, looking forward to doing his Masters and a happy career ahead.
The results for the girls are equally good.

Of course there must be some home educators for whom it hasn't turned out so happily.
I am not talking from a point of view of knowing one home ed family, I know literally hundreds of HE families in real life now. I talk to them on line, on the phone, in real life at Home Ed gatherings, and I run workshops for HE parents. People seek me out to tell me about HE.
Hand on heart the vast majority tell me of the same wart free life I am describing.

Of course I am biased against the education my children had in school. These who went right through and those who were lucky enough for me to have found out that HE is a legal viable alternative. I recognise though that schools work for many children and is the right choice for many families-for a variety of reasons.

I'm glad that school works out for you. It's also the choice my stepdaughters have made, for their children, in the full knowledge and support of our HE lifestyle. I respect that too.
I say to them as I say to you exoticfruits, I respect your choice to do what you think is best for your family. Only you know what that is, I don't walk in your shoes. I wouldn't dream of commenting on your choices.
If you asked me for ideas of how you could manage to HE your children, because they are unhappy in school, I'd offer suggestions then. But you are not asking that.
For my stepdaughters I'd offer tangible support in helping to do the HE if they wanted it.

The OP was though "I was just wondering if you thought there were any benefits of primary school that HE can't provide"

and from the warts free, wonderfully rosy experience of my family, and literally hundreds of others..........No I don't think there is.

But klaxon, I don't think it works like that. You and they need to learn basic 'learning and research' skills and then it is just a matter of finding things out.

If you wanted to follow a syllabus, they are easily available these days, as are online courses, but actually you can cover the gcse stuff autonomously, although you have to consider how to cover h practical aspects safely.

Something to think about then Starlight. TBH I don't know how mine will settle down at school. DD has started school and is not getting on too well, her teacher hates her because she's a bit cleverer than she should be at her age and knows it (actually she's an arrogant twonk but she'll grow out of that) and DS is starting school aged four and two months in September and is completely uninterested in any way. So thanks for that, it's good to know it is doable.

Klaxon the curriculum is available online as are many free resources. That is if you wanted to follow the nc. Some H.eders don't and make their own curriculum covering what they feel important then they can study for GCSE when the time is right, if they so choose.

Don't actually think that getting together once a week with other HE kids is "socialisation covered"

I have two main concerns with socialisation and HE. One is the learning to rub along with/ work in groups with people who you don't particularly like or who don't particularly like you but that you have to have a working relationship with.

The oth is the idea of a wide pool of diverse people to choose possible friends from where the only thing you have in common is the shared experience, good and bad, of school. You meet someone in Reception- hate them in year 2 and 3, don't even notice them in year 4 and are best friends in year 6. It's all important stuff!

And that's before you start thinking about team games, and drama and choirs. Yes, of curse you can do all these things outside of school- but you may not know you want to!

But seeker, schools as we now know them are not where we are heading for the future. Free schools are starting to pop up all over the place with anything from LA involvement and staffing to schools in people's homes for 5 pupils of different ages.

Just what I was going to post AdventuresWithVoles

Where I live at the moment, I'm surrounded by HEers. I too have heard all the arguments for and against. I think HEers are a defensive bunch because they almost always have had to fight to keep their kids at home (questioned from all sides: family, schools, LEA's etc). They almost always have fought so hard because, for many diverse reasons, they fundamentally dislike school/organised education/institutions.

The debate gets polarised. And the real thruths of course lay in the field between the polar extremeties.

I have been quite impressed at the HE some families on here are providing their DC. I know where I live (very, VERY rural) the opportunities to group HE families together and go to science museums etc are very few and far between. So, although some people point to this as an example of HE, I don't believe it's very representative.

I DO think, from observation of successful HEers, that the DC lack social skills gained from interacting with peers (the HE DC interact scarily well with adults, but only with variable success with peers).

I DO think it is a real problem that the HE DC don't have a right to a private life. Whatever some HEers say on here, this is a marks ALL the HEers I know.

I DO think that HE DC lack variety when it comes to sport. Schools offer many different opportunities to try different sports - far more than a half hour taster session.

I DO think the attainment of DC HE is pretty poor in general, and at best patchy (excellent reading skills and dismal science ed is a really common problem). We may all poo-poo qualifications, but they lead to jobs in the long run.

It sounds idyllic, Julie.

I find it hard - I love the idea of HE in principle, and I could think of loads of things to do with DS, I just struggle spending too much time with him. I find I need some time and space away from him (although perhaps this is in part due to not doing much). Plus I suffer on and off from depression and often just don't feel like going anywhere or doing anything, so DS ends up watching far too much TV.

I find it frustrating to do tasks with him, like craft stuff, if he isn't doing it as I would like. I can relax a little and let him loose with things like decorating, sticking, colouring etc, but if he's making something and I can see that it won't work or he's about to break it I can't help myself but to step in and tell him what to do (normally irritably :() which I know is the worst possible thing. The only thing I like doing with him is cooking, and I'm aware this is only because I have a legitimate reason (hot and sharp things!) to be uptight about it and to make the rule pretty clear - you need to listen and do what I say or you can't help at all.

We're moving to Germany in a few months which will take the pressure off school-wise as he'll have a couple of extra years, and they have a lot of montessori schools there where the process is about finding out things for themselves.

no, I don't think there are OP at primary. Once you get to secondary level, I could imagine it is difficult to compete with the science facilities secondary schools offer and I don't know of anything that is available to HEing families which would provide a similar set-up, so it is only at secondary level that I would see benefits to school which HE might not be able to provide.

" that's before you start thinking about team games, and drama and choirs. Yes, of curse you can do all these things outside of school- but you may not know you want to!"

But seeker, they are loads of things our children do as home educators, that they would never have had the opportunity for in school.
Sailing for instance......how would my dds have ever known they wanted to be sailors if they had stayed in school?
It's not an opportunity that has been offered to any of their peers that they were previously schooled with.
I remember DD2 at the dancing group she was with, saying to the girls there, that she had hurt her leg earlier that day playing rugby....their reposte was "OMG! They MAKE you play Rugby?!"
Many of those girls may well have enjoyed playing Rugby, but they haven't been offered it as a choice, so had no experience.
....yes of course you can do rugby outside of school, but you may not know you want to!

"One is the learning to rub along with/ work in groups with people who you don't particularly like or who don't particularly like you but that you have to have a working relationship with"
No that's not a problem either.....not at HE groups and camps, not at work/FE College/Uni.

Apart from I know some families would like an easier access to exam centres, you still haven't come up with anything that has been a problem for the home ed families I know. Nothing that I would consider to be an advantage in school -for us- that we couldn't/didn't do as home educators.

I know that HE is not your choice, but your reality is not mine, nor that of the vast majority of people I know.

julienoshoes

What's so great about schools is DC get to do ALL the things schools offer FOR FREE, and then can come home and do all the things you offer too (be that sailing, horseriding whatever). Plus, you aren't knackered from teaching them how to read all day long

"I DO think it is a real problem that the HE DC don't have a right to a private life. Whatever some HEers say on here, this is a marks ALL the HEers I know."

Now the information I get from my children and from the schooled children I know, is that autonomously home educated children get way more privacy than schooled children.

DD2 in college now, is always telling me that other parents aren't like HE parents, they want to know more about what their children are up to/thinking/doing.......they want to control more.
"They don't give their children the privacy that you do"

now I know that's probably not true of all parents of schooled children, but it shows how skewed these viewpoints can be doesn't it?