Keeping toddlers safe around an unfenced villa pool on holiday

[OneProudCrab]

Very excited to be going on our first family holiday to a villa. We have DS1 (3yr) and DS2 (13 months crawler). There will be PIL (but are fairly hands off parenting) and BIL with a baby also.

Ive started to get a bit paranoid about pool safety after hearing some terrible statistic that it is the number one cause of death in 1-3yr olds (think it was the US and haven't fact checked so it may be completely false but nevertheless I'm worried still).

The villa does not have a fence around it and I think the idea was to spend a lot of time in the outdoor shady area that is close but not directly overlooking the pool.

Any advice other than to stay super vigilant on how to keep kids safe and allow us to relax as much as we can whilst they play?

Are you mad? I don’t even let toddlers near my covered with a net pond. And parents same with their pond in their garden.

I have worked in many child drownings over the years.
The toxic combination is always having multiple people around where you think everyone is watching the child but actually they are not. Family gatherings often featured sadly.
The drowning often happens when the mother is occupied and assumed others watch the toddler in many cases often she has a younger baby. Everyone assumes that someone is watching.

-Never take your eyes off your child near water. If you leave in someone else care ensure one person is fully responsible for watching.
-At night ensure all doors ( and windows that a child could climb through) are locked with no way the child can open them. Will children be in room with you ? you need to make sure they are not getting up earlier with someone who may open doors then wonder off to the toilet.
You will need to be on your guard at all times, this will not be relaxing for you. I have also had villa holidays with a toddler so I am aware of what this means. Your child may be coming to the shower. toilet etc with you if you can't trust someone else to properly watch them.

• Put your child in very bright clothes -orange, pink, red - no blues/greys /greens - you need them visible instantly in a blue pool. This is at all times btw not just swimming clothes.

Be very very clear with your child on water safety and not going in pool without someone.

Don’t do it!!

My nephew had to dive in to rescue his toddler daughter when they were sharing a villa with friends. It was evening, everyone was drinking alcohol and chatting etc., and the toddler had got out of bed and wandered out unnoticed.

It was several days into the holiday and they had all just got too relaxed to be extra vigilant.

All those saying it’s fine. It’s fine until it isn’t!

My parents had a holiday home in SW France with a fenced pool with a gate which they let family and friends go to. The gate was fairly easy to open. The children who went were usually older and not young kids, but my parents stressed to them, keep an eye on your kids at all times by the pool. Luckily there were no accidents in years of having that holiday home.

It only takes a second. For a tragedy to happen.

Why would you need to rely on other people?

Really? You’re not able to grasp that other people might do things which put your children at risk? You lock the doors at night but then the GP go out early and leave the door unlocked. Examples have been given on this thread.

I had a friend from school lose a baby to a pool in a villa in Bali. Please be careful.

I know someone who went to a scouts pool party, all parents there. A child drowned. I don't know the layout but I'm wondering if there's a way to just buy temporary fencing ? The plastic netting kind. Not sure how it could be secured without seeing it as obviously you can't secure it.

An example:-

I was at my parents house when my toddler nephew was young (a few years ago). They have a large garden with a pond with a net in the middle. My nephew was walking with someone but tripped and fell onto the netting (not into the water) and onto the large pond. I was visiting and saw this happen from their kitchen window and went mental at my stepdad (his garden mostly, his domain) saying how easy a tragedy could happen. The child was ok but the net could’ve torn. Now they won’t even let their toddler grandson (different child) in the garden near the pond even with them. My mum even found out kids can drown in a tiny bit of water. I did tell my mum (think she was a bit naive) the first time how dangerous it could be and so they acted on it. The doors to the back garden French windows are always locked and especially when the kids go to their house.

There have been many such incidents, according to Google's AI. Possibly not two-year-olds though - like I said, I couldn't find the story. I thought the child was two, but I could be misremembering. They were definitely a toddler, though. If the parent has a crappy code in there in order to remember it, like just the top three horizontal buttons left to right, a kid could do that. Some people put the code in to be a pattern on the keypad, as opposed to a number sequence like a birthday. Remembering to press, say, the top right button four times would be easy. Anyway, Google's AI says that children are highly observant and have been known to operate key pads after watching parents. They are not memorising a number sequence, they are just observing a simple physical pattern of pressing. Cats can do that with those talking buttons.

Great post. The detail about the risk increasing with more adults seems paradoxical but it’s absolutely true. Psychologists refer to a concept of ‘diffusion of responsibility’, and the more people who are present, the less each individual takes personal responsibility. It’s a version of the bystander effect.

This post is all the more reason with young children that you research thoroughly any villa with a pool, even hotel pools for safety. If they don’t look safe or you have any doubts then don’t book it.

Similar with scouts party example, any party with a pool, double and triple check safety measures and if you’re not sure don’t allow kids to go.

This is a really good post. I've heard of families taking a lanyard and who ever is wearing it is on pool duty. It obviously only works if you can trust those youre on holiday with but eliminates the communication issues.

You can also get stick on door alarms and locks on amazon quite cheaply. Again you have to trust that everyone else in your party will keep all the doors shut and locked.

Do not go at all. It is not worth the risk, and it is very high. Inadvertently leaving a door/low window open even for 2 seconds is going to happen. It has happened in our family with life ending results.

Please do not go there.

The family gatherings thing is absolutely true. My grandparents had a big house/garden with a pool and would host large family parties in the summer.

A family friend had to dive into the pool fully clothed to rescue my brother who had wandered off and was silently drowning. My DB was about 4 or 5 at the time. Everyone thought someone else was watching the kids because there were so many adults around.

Re your last line. My nephew (2.5) would listen but not necessarily understand because he’s a toddler. And not that aware of safety (though knows not to touch ovens as they are hot and same with fridges/freezers cold). Excitement would take over with him. His older brother (8) isn’t a great swimmer and would listen but may be overexcited by a pool too. They have been on holiday to a hotel with a pool this spring, but everyone was there in the pool. And same last summer for a week in an air b and b with a pool. Grandparents and aunt/uncle /cousins were there and they had a tag team for the pool for the younger 2, 5 and then 1.5 years old.

Swimming is my family’s strongest sport and I would not take toddlers to this villa because I wouldn’t be able to relax. Even with a fence, I wouldn’t be lulled into a false sense of security, in case it failed. Unless you can safely fence off the area, I would book an alternative.

Google Veronica and Angelina Andreottola of Lynnfield, USA. They were two years and eight months old, twin girls. Their family pool had am electronic pool cover, but they still drowned, because one of them managed to operate the cover and make it retract.

Children will do anything to get into a pool. They're so drawn to water. I guess pools look very inviting, all sparkly and blue, and they associate it with fun.

Who booked this place @OneProudCrab?

guess only slight blessing that that both are young so hopefully will have a nice long nap 1-3 of 2-4 and you can all relax then

otherwise it’s going to be a less then relaxing holiday watching kids like a hawk

Honestly holidays are for relaxing - why would you pay loads of money to spend all your time on edge?

It is difficult enough on holiday with small children having to negotiate changes of place, routine, food etc. without worrying they might drown at any moment.

The laws about fences or electronic safety devices in places like France are there for a reason.

This will be no sort of holiday for you all.

Who on earth booked that! I don’t think I’d go

You have to supervise children that young constantly wherever you go unless you strap them in a buggy or have a playpen. Pool or not. When our kids were around pools at that age, and older, one of us never took our eyes off them. The adults need to take turns, with clear expectations of who is in charge.

I still recall having to shout to a mother whose son (about 7 years old) was clearly in difficulty, head under water, close to the shallow end of a pool (where there was a gradual slope into the water). If she hadn't immediately heard me, I knew I'd have had to rescue him.

The only way you’ll be able to relax is if you strap em down.

Honestly for me it would depend on how much time will be spent at the villa. If it’s a holiday where you’ll be out and about, visiting places, going to the beach ect then fine, not ideal but fine. If it’s one where you’ll be chilling at the villa all the time I probs would not go or not take the kids.

Similar here. My pil have a house in the south of France with an unfenced pool. We visit every year. We always made sure one of us was “in charge” at all times with a handover. Not relaxing but holidays with small children are not relaxing anyway. Tbh there were lots of hazards - stairs with no bannister, sharp edges, etc so we just needed to be vigilant at all times.

Your in-laws have never been arsed to make the small investment to get their pool fenced @eurochick ?