Parents' names on UK child passport? Documents for a parent with different surname?

[ParentOfOne]

Our children have my surname; my wife has a different surname. Every single time my wife travels with our children without me, UK border guards give her grief about the different surname. Every. Single. Time.

So two questions:

1. Has anyone ever managed to add the parents' names in the 'notes' section of a British child passport, when applying for a new one? This is what some European countries do; it is so straightforward, inexpensive, and just makes everyone's life so much easier. We asked once, and they told us no.

2. How does a parent with a different surname travel with their children but without the other parent? We always bring the kids' UK birth certificates, which show both parents' names, but, even so, border guards give my wife grief, with silly comments on how easy it is to fake birth certificates. Then why do you not add the parents' names to the passports? It's not our fault if the only document the UK provides (birth certificate) is easy to fake!!

To be clear, I get it that it's important to ensure children are not abducted etc, I totally get it. What I don't get is giving grief because the only document that shows both parents' names is easy to fake.

Oh, and the fact that too many people in the UK still give weird looks to a married woman who has dared keep her surname (this has happened a lot in other circumstances, too). I should add we are all the same race and all UK citizens, so ours isn't one of those cases where the children look nothing like the mother (which I get would warrant higher scrutiny at the border).

@withthischoice ??? Yes, she "was completely fine with her children not having the surname that she wanted to keep for herself". Is this not her prerogative, too? Why do you ask? How is this relevant to the topic of the thread???

"It is interesting that your wife has got “grief” every time and yet everyone else on the thread in a similar situation…. doesn’t"

Most people did not experience the same but most doesn't mean everyone.

Like I did say, we did wonder if there is anything else that triggers these checks, like maybe her name being the same or similar to that of some wanted criminal?

I still believe that, regardless, being questioned on why she did not change her surname, and being told off for carrying a document that's too easy to fake (birth certificate), while the UK refuses to provide safer documents, makes no sense.

You are of course welcome to believe that I am making it all up, that my wife is a confrontational drama queen who brings this upon herself, or that being questioned on why she didn't change her surname either didn't happen or is completely normal. I genuinely couldn't care less.

Most people did not experience the same but most doesn't mean everyone.

which poster has said they too get grief every time?

I get questioned every time with my daughter. Actually last time I didn't get questioned but that was probably because I handed over her documents before the border guard got a chance to speak.

PS By the way, it wasn't just a rant. I also wanted to understand if there was any realistic way to limit the odds of these additional checks (additional compared to the experience of many and to my experience when travelling with the kids but without my wife).

The short answer seems to be: no.

We are not going to change anyone's surname. I appreciate different people will feel differently but this is our decision.

She could bring the marriage certificate and maybe some kind of consent letter, although neither is harder to fake than the birth certificates and there is no certainty they will make any difference.

And of course she needs to remain calm, which some people implied may have played a role.

And if she receives silly questions again on why she didn't change her surname she should consider filing a complaint.

People with dual citizenship could show, if they have it, a foreign document showing parenthood, eg the child's European passport or identity card. UK citizens have no other document to prove parental responsibility.

given you have avoided answering, i’m guessing she has a different surname and she was not born in the UK and she’s travelling back alone regularly to her home country.

Does she have a british passport?

@withthischoice Your guess is wrong.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you really want to help, even if you come across as needlessly confrontational.

Even if it were as you incorrectly guessed, so what?

Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, that my wife was born in Germany, has a German passport only, and regularly takes the kids to visit their German grandparents and cousins.

Surely, from a UK perspective, the risk would be in a German adult, with maybe more ties to Germany than to the UK, in taking UK children from the UK to Germany without their UK father???

Where would the risk be in a German adult taking UK children BACK TO THE UK, where their UK father lives, and where the children are regularly registered with GPs, regularly enrolled in school, where the family is not known to social services, etc??

And yet what does the UK do? The UK, unlike most other Western countries, does NOT check passports on exit, but only on entry.

I can understand that maybe there is something we are unaware of that triggers these additional checks (similar name to a dodgy individual? who knows).

But the lectures on how this is all to protect our children and me, no, please spare me those.

Sure, checks are always necessary, and there is always the risk that a UK parent might abduct German children to take them here away from the other German parent, but the lack of exit checks is quite laughable...

ok so from that i take

your wife doesn’t have a british passport but your children do.

and therein lies why she has been more questioned than others on this thread about having a different surname to your children

oddly decided against including the bit of info op

border officials won’t have the foggiest idea if the father is in britain or not.

So they are faced with a lone female with children - sharing neither a surname nor British passport with them.

They’re doing due diligence.

I was once questioned and nearly not allowed to fly with my two children who have a different surname to me.

I hadn't thought to bring their birth certificates as we were flying within the uk from Scotland to England.

Other times they've questioned my children to confirm I was their mother. Strangely only on the way back into UK.

It wasn't every journey and thankfully they didn't require a letter of approval from their Dad as I hadn't ever had that.

Some cruise lines are now much stricter on allowing children to board if they're not accompanied by both parents. Families have had to phone the missing parent(s) and get them to email passport and signed letter of approval before being allowed to embark. Doesn't happen to everyone in this situation but stressful when it does.

and if your wife is anything like you….

she talks at length and unnecessarily defensively

(oh and no need to give me the benefit of the doubt re trying to help you. I’m not.)

@withthischoice This will be my last reply to you. Mumsnet doesn't, I think, have a function to let me block you, so I will just ignore you if you continue with your deranged rants and assumptions.

You are, again, wrong. You made silly unfounded assumptions just because you wanted to confirm some silly preconception you had formed in your brain.

But thank you for confirming you weren't trying to help. Are you in the habit of picking up fights with strangers accusing them of falsehoods? You do you, but what a sad life yours must be...

Or are you a border official yourself and lost your s* when you saw someone questioning their professionalism?

We are talking about a UK-born woman, holding UK citizenship only, ignored when taking UK children out of the country (which is arguably higher risk) but given grief when coming back to the UK, with her UK children, and regularly carrying the one and only document (birth certificates) the UK provides to prove parenthood.

I hadn't answered with all these pieces of information because I don't have to justify anything to you, you weren't trying to help and I don't appreciate your needlessly aggressive style of questioning - like grilling me on why my wife was happy with her children not having her same surname; maybe it's her prerogative? What relevance does that have??

And no, 'grief' doesn't mean just a couple of legitimate questions - unless you find it legitimate to be grilled on why she didn't change her surname.

As for border officials not knowing where the father is, unless you can confirm because you are a border official yourself, I wouldn't be so sure.
I would like to think that border officials have access to things like the DVLA database and other sources of data; it would be very straightforward to confirm that the adult male registered on the birth certificates as the kids' father holds a driving licence registered to the same address of my wife. Council tax and land registry records would also show the same.

If then border officials do not have access to any of this, then it means they are even more useless than I thought, because they carry out no checks on exit (where the risk is much greater!) and cannot access such basic information for their entry checks.

Do you mean the airline requested this (since there are no police checks for domestic flights)?

That I can understand, and we always carry the kids' birth certificates.

We don't find it odd that birth certificates are requested; we find it odd that the mother travelling without the father is grilled more than the father travelling without the mother, and that the questioning included inappropriate grilling on why she didn't change her surname etc.

It was airline that queried me when I didn't have birth certificates for internal flight. It was first time I'd flown alone with my sons and hadn't thought it any different to catching a train.

"isn’t a barbed question, i am genuinely curious how someone wants to keep their own surname but at the same time is absolutely fine with their children having a different surname?"

I didn't marry my partner, so no reason to change my name. I have a long foreign sounding surname, although uk born and bred. My partner had a short easy to spell surname. Double barrelled would have been unwieldy. It's caused a few issues with it being different over the years, but I don't regret my choice.

my, and indeed others, have expressed 🤔 at the notion that every time your wife gets grief

although as i say - if anything like her husband, then i’d be surprised if she’s not argumentative and very defensive.

As you can see Op - your wife “getting grief” “every time” is…. well not common place. Indeed, not a single poster has said they also experience “grief” “every time”.

If then border officials do not have access to any of this, then it means they are even more useless than I thought,

i suspect you think this about a lot of people able to exercise some kind of authority over you

unless you find it legitimate to be grilled on why she didn't change her surname.

every time

Nah

we find it odd that the mother travelling without the father is grilled more than the father travelling without the mother,

but the children share your surname 😐

@plumberdrain But surely showing a birth certificate proving she's the mother is a stronger proof of parenthood than simply having the same surname???

The point is not resenting that border force dare check us. It's quite the opposite: that the checks are shallow, and, if anything, they don't check enough.

We have already discussed how silly it is not to have exit checks, and how that is the greatest risk for UK children.

On entry, they never ask me for the kids' birth certificates, and they almost never ask me or the kids any additional questions.
My wife always shows the birth certificates, and yet even that is almost never enough.

Basically they just assume I am the father, because the surname is the same.
However, since her surname is different, they always assume that something may be off and question her, even when she presents the birth certificates.

By the way, adding parents' name on passports makes so much more sense, because the birth certificates only show parenthood but don't get updated if one parent dies or loses parental responsibility.

So if I lost parental responsibility I suspect it would be much easier for me to take my kids out of the UK (no exit checks, and no record of it in the birth certificates) than out of the EU Schengen area (exit checks, plus some (not all) EU countries showing parental responsibility in the kids' passports).

Basically they just assume I am the father, because the surname is the same.

they will be able to check your address and how many people life at your property and number of dependents. If they do wished

You asked why your wife got more of a grilling than you.

a) it won’t be a “grilling” or “grief”. Not even close. But if you have a tendency to get agitated and perceived injustices directed at you… then yes, i can see how you came to that conclusion

b) yep… not having a different surname is
enough for a few questions (as every other poster has said they get)

Thank you for gaslighting me and implying I am making things up.

I remain of the opinion that being questioned on why she didn't change her surname, and being kept there for about 15 minutes while other colleagues were called to inspect a birth certificate in pristine conditions, was not just a couple of questions. It seems I must be in the minority on this lovely forum.

These things didn't happen to anyone else on the forum, so the most common reaction seems to be: "either it didn't happen or she brought this on herself".

Just bear in mind that refusing to believe what doesn't fit your own, very narrow experience is the same attitude that causes of victims of violence and bullying not to be believed. No, I am not saying any of this amounts to violence or bullying, I am saying that the attitude of judging everything based on one''s very narrow experience is dangerous.

Hmm I used to work for immigration and I find it odd that your wife is asked about why she didn't change her name? It's an irrelevant point so for this to be asked by several? different border force staff seems odd.

If this is the case then complain about the officials as they're not adhering to the policy and guidance. But we do have to check who is bringing children into the UK to avoid them being trafficked. Sometimes this means detaining people if there is a doubt as to who they are. My own SIL was derailed for an hour while they got the passport details for her daughter as they had different names.

My advice is take their birth certificates with you if either of you are flying alone as that is evidence of PR. Also helpful to have the letter of consent although of course that can be produced by anyone.

I am married and have a different name from my husband and children. And yes - it absolutely is the case that periodically I have had an extra layer of questioning on occasions. People have questioned OP on the use of the term “getting grief” or whatever it was - generally it’s low level stuff. However, there has been one occasion when I was travelling where border control separated me from my young children. I cd see them but they were keeping us apart whilst the kids were being asked questions. That was clearly due to my different second name. It didn’t feel nice, it was uneasy for the kids and if u find airports stressful, like me, then the whole experience is heightened.

it becomes far less of an issue the older the kids get. I wd just suck it up and be ready to respond to questions civilly. If u want to go to the bother of carrying extra documentation u can but if all your passports are in order u shd b fine regardless.

Hmm I used to work for immigration and I find it odd that your wife is asked about why she didn't change her name? It's an irrelevant point so for this to be asked by several? different border force staff seems odd.

odd or patently untrue.

Given many many families out there are not married

the op says “every time”