After Covid, would you give up flying to combat climate change?

[Aprilrainbow]

After a horrid year we all want a holiday but would you be prepared to give up flying to combat climate change or is that a pre covid thing now? No axe to grind, just interested in peoples views.

My view is that there isn’t the smallest chance of persuading or even coercing enough human brings to give up modern comforts to the extent required to combat climate change. The only thing that might potentially work - and it’s a long shot - is throwing money at research in to greener ways of doing what we already do and keeping what we already have eg solar power; new cleaner air travel technologies etc. And there’s no need to ‘save the planet’; the planet will be fine; it will still be here, even though humans might not be.

No, and I’ve always considered myself to be pretty environmentally aware. My brother lives in Canada and there’s no way I’d willingly give up the chance to visit him and SIL, and for DD to have a relationship with them. And being forced to stay largely at home for a year has given me major wanderlust. I studied MFL at university and I want DD to have the same opportunities to travel and experience other cultures and languages that I did.

Very happy to cut down and use alternative modes of transport - pre-covid we’d already started travelling to mainland Europe by rail wherever possible, despite much longer travel times - but not to give up foreign travel completely. DD is an only child in part because of environmental concerns so we’re doing our bit in other ways.

If I adopted my children do I lose carbon allowance for them? They existed before they came to me so the allowance should be removed from their birth parents, not us yes?

@Boohooyouho

If I adopted my children do I lose carbon allowance for them? They existed before they came to me so the allowance should be removed from their birth parents, not us yes?

As society does need children in some number, according to the posters above, presumably they get their own carbon allowance anyway, so you just get a transfer.

We just need some form of lottery of who is allowed children and who isn't.

What a depressing thread. Some people love travel, but don’t care about the future of the places they visit.

I’m prepared to give up flying completely, if that’s what it takes, but not if most people are refusing to cut down at all. What would be the point?

I haven’t flown since 2016 and my next holiday will probably be a train trip to Paris. I would be happy with a carbon credit system and think that’s the fairest way.

We have flown once in the 6 years since we became parents and have a short haul flight booked for June next year if we’re allowed to travel. I suspect that we won’t fly again for a number of years as we have lots of work on our house to do so a holiday abroad is bottom of the list of priorities for spending. Our holidays are usually spent at our caravan 1hr drive away, or visiting my family on the other side of the country. But we do run two cars (shift work so can’t use public transport) and eat meat almost every day so we’ll be in the bad books I’d suspect.

@Cattenberg what’s a carbon credit system? Sounds interesting

[quote Youngatheart00]@Cattenberg what’s a carbon credit system? Sounds interesting[/quote]
It’s very complicated but broadly everyone had a certain amount of credits to use up in terms of their personal or household carbon emissions -so for example flying would use up a lot of credits but running an electric car instead of a fuel one would not. And having an energy efficient household would use up few credits whereas if you had a badly insulted household it would cost a lot.
So that would mean that if everyone tried their hardest to lessen their carbon emissions in other ways they could fly say once a year. If they ran an ancient diesel car they could not. Of course it would be very difficult to come up with a workable system but the point is everyone would be responsible for making their own choices in terms of carbon emissions.

More realistic perhaps is that people are allowed to fly a certain amount of miles every year and they could save them up to, for example fly long haul every 5 years instead of short haul once a year. And perhaps encourage people to use airlines that use the newest planes.

But before that tax anyone that flies more than a certain amount of times a year. That needs to happen fairly urgently IMO and is probably now workable now that people have had to cope without frequent flying for a few months.

@Summerhillsquare

A priveleged question *@posturesorposes*? Do you realise how few people can afford to fly? It's the ones who can't who bear the worst consequences of global warming too.

My answer is yes. Already had given up personally, and now we won't fly for work anymore.

It is a rather privileged view you have @Summerhillsquare

I live in a country primarily composed of migrant workers who go home maybe once every two years or so. Even that amount costs them a lot. People like you would put it out of their reach even further. Low-cost airlines has been a godsend for these groups, but rich Westerners love complaining about them for some reason.

If you looked at the stats, you’d realise that commercial air transport is a tiny slice of overall emissions, would hardly change matters and it would lead to a big decline in standards of living for people across the income spectrum.

Guess what? If you truly cared about people living in the third world, you’d allow them cheap access to fossil fuels to raise their living standards.

Part of the reason why climate change affects the developing world is due to poor infrastructure. If they had up-to-date buildings and good roads, it wouldn’t actually be a big deal.

Also, everyone should keep in mind that aviation only accounts for less than 3% of global carbon emissions (and includes freight as well as passenger flights).

You’d do a lot of harm for an action that will make virtually no real impact on emissions. What’s the fucking point?

Please don’t ever be made to feel guilty for getting on a plane.

@Summerhillsquare it befuddles me that people aren’t seeing the real issues of privilege here. Migrant workers, from developing countries - living and making a life in the west - millions of them - unable to commit to not using complex air way routes for cheapest fares to go and give their Asian and African families a hug every couple of years? You genuinely do not see the privilege in choosing not to fly when you presumably reside and work in the country/continent you were born in, and said country/continent is presumably in western industrialised societies, and presumably your parents or siblings are also residing in the same country/continent - meaningful your travel needs are fundamentally different from migrant workers?
You do not see this basic difference between these groups and their diverging ability to commit or not to “no more flying anymore”?

No. I work in the industry and while it may sound selfish, I would like to continue to be able to support my family. But above all else aviation connects our tiny island to the rest of the World.

Remember that so much that we take for granted from food to tech to medicine wouldn't be readily available to us if it wasn't imported by air. Our trade and relations with the rest of the World depend on air travel. So unless you're happy to go and live a truly self sufficient life in a self built cabin in the wilderness then you may need to accept that some air travel is necessary.

Top tip, start with reducing your use of disposable single use plastics. Use smaller independent shops rather than supermarkets and do things like taking your own containers to butchers etc to buy meat. Buying a chilly bottle or reusable coffee mug is not enough if you really want to make a difference.

There is no comparison between flights for medical supplies and flights for a hen party.

No one needs to live in a cabin in the wilderness.

Agreed MangoFeverDream. People should do some proper research

@MangoFeverDream

Also, everyone should keep in mind that aviation only accounts for less than 3% of global carbon emissions (and includes freight as well as passenger flights).

You’d do a lot of harm for an action that will make virtually no real impact on emissions. What’s the fucking point?

Please don’t ever be made to feel guilty for getting on a plane.

Have to divide energy use into essential/non essential.

Flights constitute non essential carbon emissions for most travellers.

Nope. I can't see what difference my holiday every two years would make really.

BefuddledPerson do you realise that a lot of freight is transported on passenger flights? Both things support eachother. If people stop flying it will become much more expensive to import or export goods, they will not be as readily available and there will be less infrastructure available to support the industry. Airports may close, airlines will fold, many industries connected to flying will go bust, people will lose their jobs (those that still have them) and so on. The benefit to the environment will be of little concern if the aviation industry collapses

@Throwntothewolves

BefuddledPerson do you realise that a lot of freight is transported on passenger flights? Both things support eachother. If people stop flying it will become much more expensive to import or export goods, they will not be as readily available and there will be less infrastructure available to support the industry. Airports may close, airlines will fold, many industries connected to flying will go bust, people will lose their jobs (those that still have them) and so on. The benefit to the environment will be of little concern if the aviation industry collapses

There is much unnecessary freight transported full stop tbh.

We'll not get out of this without some changes. I'm ok with that.

No, sorry. I know it’s damaging but my family live all over the place and Travel is the most incredible thing if you can do it. It’s far too expensive to get the train too although I have done quite a few long train journeys this was when I would only have to buy my own ticket pre kids. I wish trail costs would decrease.

Like the previous poster said about missing Heathrow, I even miss airports!

That sounds heartless but we have to change. All of it.

Flights, consumption, driving, heating, lighting, food.

It all needs to evolve.

I don't want you to have no job. But I also don't want everything to stay like this.

Oh I should say I don’t and never have owned a car, never hire a car when away and always rely on walking or public transport and don’t eat meat abd have green energy suppliers at home. I do realise aviation is still not good though.

No. We only fly about once every 3 years. I'm 49 and I've only ever flown longhaul once in my life. I think people who fly a lot should cut down.

No.

I really hope that Covid puts a permanent end to showboating business travel. So much of it is not necessary or pleasurable.

@BreakfastOfWaffles

I really hope that Covid puts a permanent end to showboating business travel. So much of it is not necessary or pleasurable.

Yeah, in my area of work engagement has improved and the reach of events widened since going online. Hoping virtual events stay.