After Covid, would you give up flying to combat climate change?

[Aprilrainbow]

After a horrid year we all want a holiday but would you be prepared to give up flying to combat climate change or is that a pre covid thing now? No axe to grind, just interested in peoples views.

@SJaneS49

I get that time and cost are factors but they really shouldn’t be excuses for doing nothing. If buying organic meat is too expensive on a day to day basis, buy less of it, flex with more vegetarian options - it’s not going to cost you more and is better for the planet. Get your supermarket shop delivered, get a smart meter fitted, stick old clothes on freecycle, turn the lights off when you leave a room, when you buy a new car get one that’s more environmentally friendly, order eco friendly toiletries and refills in bulk online , stick another jumper on rather than banging the heating up -these are not costly or hugely time consuming changes.

When it comes to holidays, we can have a big beneficial effect. Money from certain tourism helps to protect landscapes and natural habitats and helps local communities manage their lands and resources in more sustainable ways. I think we need to change the way we fly to help limit the environmental impact but I do personally believe we should fly.

I don't buy organic now lol I don't even think the 1 shop in town would have a huge range We rural, choice is limited, distance to many shops is about a 2hr drive to city. Cost comes into play somewhat. Only 1 supermarket delivers to my house from a town 45 minutes away As a family, vegetarian just wouldnt work. I Hate cooking, me and dd fussy with taste and texture. When youve lived with no food, you value flavour and fast if you hate cooking

But brutal reality is, I had a shit childhood, ratty 2nd hand clothes, no food or electricity at times, heating or cooling, been homeless
I value convienence and comfort now. I don't want to put in extra effort to source stuff or work out if it's eco friendly.
I want to go on holidays I never did when younger

Be a cold day in hell that dp gives up his 4 wheel drive, he has to tow the boat and caravan, plus he values their safety for us over smaller cars. We did buy new start of lkast year. Towing, safety, comfort, space were our considerations

I have pressures in my life too but I was willing to make changes
I'm not.
Going by how much convienence stuff nd food/drink I sell at work daily, neither are most. I can refill 3 different sizes of coffee cups 3 times in one 8 hour shift.
I work in a servo, guess how many times I been asked if we have a charging station..... None.
I've seen diesel run out several times in last few months though

Only so much we are individuals can do obviously but whether it’s pressuring our politicians, supporting campaigning activities, not buying clothes made in China (their textile industry is a big pollutant) or not visiting the place then we do have some (admittedly small!) leverage
Wish aka from China, is one of the few places I can buy tops I like and that fit well
I couldn't even name our local politicians. Don't care to either.

You’ve attributed something to me from another post - ‘ I have pressures in my life too but I was willing to make changes - not me.

@squeekums, the point I’m making is that there are positive benefits to the environment from tourism and bigger changes we can make to our lifestyles that will benefit the environment than not flying ..,if that’s a driver.

Do I think we should try and make an effort? Yes but no one’s perfect are they, we’re not. You say you have an issue accessing organic as you’re rural, in contrast we had it easier accessing organic when we lived rurally as there was a great local farm shop. As for China being ‘ one of the few places I can buy tops I like and that fit well’.. I don’t get it, almost sounds like you go to China to shop 🙂?!!

@SJaneS49

You’ve attributed something to me from another post - ‘ I have pressures in my life too but I was willing to make changes - not me.

@squeekums, the point I’m making is that there are positive benefits to the environment from tourism and bigger changes we can make to our lifestyles that will benefit the environment than not flying ..,if that’s a driver.

Do I think we should try and make an effort? Yes but no one’s perfect are they, we’re not. You say you have an issue accessing organic as you’re rural, in contrast we had it easier accessing organic when we lived rurally as there was a great local farm shop. As for China being ‘ one of the few places I can buy tops I like and that fit well’.. I don’t get it, almost sounds like you go to China to shop 🙂?!!

There aint no farm gates or farmers markets here. Out here they wheat and sheep farmers, we can get some great lamb in lamb season though lol

Nah, not go to but wish is the one place that stocks the prints and styles of top i like, there is nothing in any local stores thats even close to the same. There is one online shop that aussie BUT their sizing puts me off, smallest is size 8, i need a 6. Plus at over $30 a top, it puts me off too. Out of the last 10 tops ive bought, ALL were from Wish
I wont wear stuff i think is ugly just cos its made here or by some eco company.
2nd hand isnt an option, little choice in print or sizes.

This is all going off thread so apologies to the OP. Unfortunately it’s about 15 years since I was a size 8 but DD2 is between a 6-8. If your argument is you can’t get anything that’s not hideous or overpriced thats not shit from China then I’m not sure it’s a great one. In contrast DD1’s occasionally bought stuff from Facebook ads and its looked absolutely nothing like the picture.

Whether you @squeekums are particularly bothered or not about making any pro environmental changes in your life is entirely up to you though isn’t it? I’m not the eco police and you have the right to do and will do obviously what you blooming well like. We as a family try but we’re really not perfect, even the environmental activists I used to work alongside weren’t.

Just as quick aside, reading through this thread, a bit of an irony the various PP complaining about the privilege of living a more environmentally friendly life and it being unaffordable for them.. yet still hanging out in the longhaul holidays section

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/15/world-population-in-2100-could-be-2-billion-below-un-forecasts-study-suggests

Population is a problem in ways I didn’t suspect it would be in my lifetime. Not sure what to make of this article, but it’s not as straightforward as ‘stop having children’ apparently.

We are lucky enough to live near a port, so take ferry. Also lucky enough to have electric car, which is also not purely good, but better than our old car hopefully. We try not to fly, but do every couple of years. Grow much of our veg. Limit meat eating. Buy secondhand where we can. My DP had stopped all internal work flights a couple of years ago, used trains. Now uses zoom. We can all make changes, they won’t all be the same changes.

Not sure what to make of this article, but it’s not as straightforward as ‘stop having children’ apparently.

No, overpopulation isn't the major threat at all. This isn't a new study, population scientists have been warning western countries of the dangers of the aging population for decades.

Once the boomers hit their 80's in the 2040's and 2050's, social security and universal healthcare won't be able to cope with the demand and the lack of taxpayer money going in. So all those not having kids that could potentially support them in their old age, may find themselves in a bad situation.

@IamTomHanks

Not sure what to make of this article, but it’s not as straightforward as ‘stop having children’ apparently.

No, overpopulation isn't the major threat at all. This isn't a new study, population scientists have been warning western countries of the dangers of the aging population for decades.

Once the boomers hit their 80's in the 2040's and 2050's, social security and universal healthcare won't be able to cope with the demand and the lack of taxpayer money going in. So all those not having kids that could potentially support them in their old age, may find themselves in a bad situation.

The dangers of an ageing population aren't the same as climate change issues though and it's unhelpful to conflate the two.

You can't have exponential population growth forever and ever just to support the current economic structure. I agree that there will be massive issues in the 2040/50s but it's the economic structure that will need to change to address that.

We deliberately reduce our flights anyway and haven't flown since 2016. So yes we'll keep this up.
We were supposed to have our flight ration in 2020 but it looks like we won't have our flight ration until 2022 now.

The dangers of an ageing population aren't the same as climate change issues though and it's unhelpful to conflate the two.

But there are links. Less people may not equal less carbon if it means more investing in cheap fuel and energy to offset the burden of an aging population with less people to employee.

Addressing both issues requires a change to the economic structure. It's not as simple as everyone not flying, especially if we need to look to mass migration to make up for dwindling birth rates.

We need to hit the fossil fuel and manufacturing industries and switch to renewables while we can.

Absolutely not, I only have my immediate family here. Everyone else is spread across multiple continents.

However I’d be happy with higher ticket prices and a commitment to carbon offsetting by the industry as a whole. Mind boggles how you can purchase an international flight for less than the cost of a peak return rail ticket into London.

Personally, no. Most of my family are overseas. If I don't fly longhaul, I wouldn't ever see them.

Ryan air advert anyone?

They must have seen this thread

Jab and go!

Getting on a plane is one of the first things I want to do

I'm an immigrant, and my family is scattered across three continents. I already made a commitent long ago to take only one round trip once every five years, because of the environment, and I will stick to that. It's already been five years since my last trip, and I have no current plans to fly anywhere.

I love my family dearly, and miss them like mad, but I would rather my family have a longer and happier life than one shortened by societal collapse and environmental disaster, even if it means me personally seeing them less.

Amen, Annie.

I think that the poster who said 10% of the people do 90% of the travel makes an interesting point. It’s those 10% of people who we need to try change behaviourally before berating people who take a flight or two every couple of years.

Berating people the 10% is unlikely to get you anywhere @ekidmxcl. Given the greater impact of eating meat, driving cars, poor energy usage and purchasing produced by highly polluting third world textile companies, you’d be better turning your energy elsewhere. There is also the environmental impact of this 10% not travelling on at risk natural environments and wildlife protected with the tourist $.