After Covid, would you give up flying to combat climate change?

[Aprilrainbow]

After a horrid year we all want a holiday but would you be prepared to give up flying to combat climate change or is that a pre covid thing now? No axe to grind, just interested in peoples views.

No. But like a PP I'm childfree by choice partly for environmental reasons which is of significantly more benefit.

It should be the real question but people don't want to face up to it.

I am cutting back, seriously cutting back.
We enjoyed our English holidays far more than I thought we would, so we will definitely be having more trips in the UK now. I loved St Ives and Cornwall, and the seals and wildlife. We really had a great time.

Now we might do one big overseas trip per year with lots of breaks here in the UK instead of the usual 3 holidays overseas. We have cut back travelling for business too to nothing.

[quote Malin52]@BefuddledPerson as a child free person who uses only renewable energy do I get to fly?

Why can't we all have carbon credits? Want to use up 10 years supply on a kid? Go for it but no flying for you. Win win. Kid free flights and I get to holiday. [/quote]
A child free future is not the answer for the human race so 'children' are going to have to be factored into any carbon budget as a social good, so I don't think it is a straight comparison between person X's flight and a specific child.

If you only see my child as a lifestyle choice for me, not the future of our society, we are approaching this question from very different perspectives.

I see everyone's children as members of our collective society.

@NeilBuchananisBanksy

No. But like a PP I'm childfree by choice partly for environmental reasons which is of significantly more benefit.

It should be the real question but people don't want to face up to it.

Is your ideal that everyone goes child-free for environmental reasons?

I also haven't missed travelling as much as I thought I would. Now I can take it or leave it. Before it was an absolute cast iron essential, now not so much. We have been weaned off endless travels so to speak.

Already did, never took many but - last long haul flight 2011 then nothing til a short haul once in 2016 and that was after getting train to Vienna from UK. For me it’s because I chose to have children / the climate impact of that is big so when I’m looking at changes to make now they have to have a big impact. The biggest impact change I can make is not flying. the impact of not flying dwarfs everything else, but if I had family overseas would have to make other changes I guess to justify the flights. We anyway only eat meat a few times a month, have green energy supply and try our hardest to not use cars except for trips to help elderly parents. It’s all a balance - you have to find it for your family - but I want my son to know we tried, as soon as we realised how serious the situation was.

Children aren't a social good. The planet is a social good which is being destroyed by all the humans on it. We need significantly less humans not more. Of course society will have to change to accommodate that.

@BefuddledPerson

The much touted 'killer argument' about not having kids is not something than can translate into real policies.

The average number of children per couple in carbon intensive nations is falling all the time anyway.

China would beg to differ. One child policy but also the social credit system they run now. And the UK already says child benefit is only for first two kids.

And yes, carbon rationing could easily take that into account. If you can organise a lot of society around one numerical system (money) it could be done easily enough another numerical system (carbon allocation). You could “save” in advance, pool carbon allocation between families, make difference carbon choices in other areas of your life on an ongoing basis, just like people do with money.

I lived as part of a carbon rationing trial project for a while. There are lots of mechanisms for redress. In our project, those who went over budget had to pay reparations to those who stayed under for example. Those who went under could carry forward their unused budget to the next year. People did things like move in together to reduce the carbon footprint of living alone, so things like multi-generational

Other projects has carbon trading systems built in, some had special allowances for people in certain occupations.

In some ways it wouldn’t be “fair”. But the financial system isn’t fair either. And at least everyone would start off with the same allocation, in the same place.

No, I enjoying holidaying in both the UK and other countries, my partners family also aren’t from the UK.

We don’t eat meat, we don’t eat dairy, I very rarely drive as we walk/cycle mainly, we aren’t into fast fashion or fast tech. The majority of my sons clothes and toys are second hand, quite a lot of the furniture in our home is second hand. If something breaks I get it fixed, I don’t buy a new replacement. I live in a flat, this uses less land than living in a house, the shared heating system is also more efficient than heating the same number of houses. I haven’t increased the number of humans on the planet.

If I ate beef 1-2 times a week that would produce the same carbon as a return flight to malaga.
Eating chicken twice a week is the equivalent of driving around 270miles in a petrol car.
Having milk once a day is the equivalent of driving 500miles in a petrol car.
Eating pork products twice a week is around 450miles in a petrol car.
Eating lamb 1-2 a week is the equivalent to a return flight to malaga.
Eating prawns 1-2 a week is equivalent to driving 600 miles in a petrol car.

I may fly sometimes, but some people consume animal products every single day. Some people buy fast fashion, some people always have the latest tech, some people who are physically able drive everywhere.

No - our DH and my parents live a flight away and nothing will stop me regularly flying to see them. DD has this year started work a flight away although can also get there by train. However next year DS will be working a long haul flight away so we will be visiting as often as we can.

“If you only see my child as a lifestyle choice for me, not the future of our society, we are approaching this question from very different perspectives. “

Yes, indeed we are. My perspective is survival if the human race, yours is perpetuation of your own bloodlines.

Your child is no different to me than anyone else’s child.

No

While there are flights and I can afford them I make my decision on holidays based on where I want to visit nothing to do with climate change.

Is your ideal that everyone goes child-free for environmental reasons?

No. But many people will need to go child free. And those who do choose to have children should realise that making that choice limits their other choices.

Exactly @EnPoinsettia carbon credits/rationing seems entirely workable and sensible. You live within your carbon means and if you run two children and two petrol cars and a clothes dryer you would basically be in significant deficit unless you made additional sensible choices.

To a previous poster who said “going childfree” should be the real question...it’s just not that simple. Unless you’re of the view that the human race should die out (in which case enjoy your holidays!) I just don’t see how setting that up as the ‘real’ question is helpful. Smaller families yes, “going childfree” as if that’s a policy change as desirable as “meat free Mondays” or other facile marketing slogans...it’s more complex than that. I have agonised over my decision to have children. Where is the anguish from the 5 corporations responsible for most of the planet’s CO2 emissions? Where’s the anger directed at the middle aged men (mostly men) whose deceitful actions kept the world on track for decades to burn through its carbon budget so that me and my child end up paying the price in terms of air we can’t breathe and a climate that is changing so rapidly it’s actually discernible year on year? It’s nowhere of course. Yet I am the one who should feel guilty for making the carefully considered decision to bring one much loved and cared for human into the world? Sorry if I sound emotional, I am.

@EnPoinsettia

“If you only see my child as a lifestyle choice for me, not the future of our society, we are approaching this question from very different perspectives. “

Yes, indeed we are. My perspective is survival if the human race, yours is perpetuation of your own bloodlines.

Your child is no different to me than anyone else’s child.

If you want the survival of the human race, which humans get to reproduce in your model?

The bloodlines talk is so melodramatic, I wanted a family.

If we can't accommodate the family instinct in a low-carbon future, what's the point?

No.

And yes to the person who talked about making other choices if you do have children. That’s why we don’t fly.

I can’t believe the people who are saying not a chance I love to travel. What on earth will happen if people aren’t willing to try to combat climate change.

@EnPoinsettia

Is your ideal that everyone goes child-free for environmental reasons?

No. But many people will need to go child free. And those who do choose to have children should realise that making that choice limits their other choices.

I will go along with this if I personally keep all tax revenue generated by my children. And my children can care for me in old age but you can wipe your own arse.

You want an individualistic approach to the carbon impact of the existence of any specific child whilst also wanting to pool other benefits of having 'children' in our society in the future.

@BefuddledPerson I'll happily keep the many hundreds of thousands of tax money I've spent on schools and hospitals and child benefit that I've never used. So that's all cool then. I'll be able to get the finest of arse wipers in my old age.

Malin you are derailing the thread, it isn't about the environmental cost or children or arse wipes. We are talking about travel.

@EnPoinsettia

Is your ideal that everyone goes child-free for environmental reasons?

No. But many people will need to go child free. And those who do choose to have children should realise that making that choice limits their other choices.

You answered the question better than I could! Completely agree.

And my children can care for me in old age but you can wipe your own arse.

Bingo!!

Having children does not automatically = care for you in the future.

I think we should all be limiting long haul flights Tbh and flying general. Not that I want to do that as I love travelling as much as the next person but climate change is real and a serious threat.