Wolf Hall discussion continuation thread

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

Continuing the thread from Telly Addicts, just in time for episode 4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/2288038-Damian-Lewis-fans-line-up-for-Wolf-Hall-tonight?msgid=52500336#52500336

I don't think Rylance can capture the physical robustness. There was a comment from Thomas More (Anton Lesser) regarding Cromwell's superior physical strength and it just didn't sit right with the visuals!

I think he came over as pretty tough when he muscled his way through the crowd round Henry when Henry was assumed to be dead after his fall when jousting.

Have just got the book from the library and read two chapters. Liking it very much so far!

I'm just catching up

Can we have another run-down of Cromwell's 3 boys?

The one with the little bit of facial hair is his nephew, who then took his name (and became later an ancestor of Oliver Cromwell I believe..).

The one who was in Love Actually - who is his ward? Where did he come from? Who does he belong to?

And another one - the one who was complaining about having the wrong colour dogs and was now having his first joust - is that his actual son? I don't think I noticed that he was his actual son to begin with.

Yes, that's Richard, his son. One of the others is Rafe, a ward. And, ummm, I've forgotten the other one.

Love actually one is Rafe. Is the other one Thomas Wriothesley?

The young jouster is Gregory , his son.

Gregory! That's it. Why did I think he was called Richard?

Richard is his nephew isn't he? Who he brings up as a son. Gregory is his biological son and Rafe his protege (don't know how to do accents, sorry).

From a mixture of IMDB and Wikipedia..

Love Actually one is Rafe - the one his little daughter was not sure if she was allowed to marry or not, and it's OK for her to marry him because he's not a relative. Here he is.

Gregory is his actual son, and is the one jousting.

Richard is his nephew who changed his name to Cromwell (actually the son of Cromwell's sister) and is ancestor of Oliver Cromwell, and is the one with the facial hair.

So I don't know what happened to call-me-Risley?

Oh, ok. Hmm. From what I recall from the Tracy Borman biography, Call-me-Risley was loyal to him throughout. I guess you'd have to say he was a protégé of Cromwell's.

Interesting that he had this sort of created family around him after the death of his wife and daughters, anyway.

Coming to this thread late, but I know a little about the chest-thumping which TC does to H8 that was discussed further up the thread, in case anyone is interested.

It's now known as a 'pre-cordial' thump which the outcome hopefully being an abnormal heart rhythm being converted to a normal rhythm (ie resuscitation). There is evidence that it was used in ancient China so I suppose the implication is that TC picked it up on his travels. It's actually not part of modern CPR anymore as it is much less effective than the chest compressions (as beautifully demonstrated in the Vinnie Jones advert).

If it was indeed used by TC (rather than being HM's artistic licence!) then it is highly unlikely to have resuscitated or revived Henry. Pre-cordial thumps are only really effective when performed immediately after the person has a cardiac arrest, and only then when the heart is in a particular rhythm. More likely is that Henry was unconscious and the thumping just woke him up (tempting though it is to try this on my teenagers in the morning, I wouldn't recommend it )

They have tried to be as plausible as possible then. Thank you mrsminiver.

Going back to the 'boys' - from the books it is fairly obvious that Gregory, Cromwell's son, is not as clever & intellectual as his father is. Much more of a 'sportsman' type who was not keen on academic studies.

Hmm, I know a little about chest thumping as well, and it seems crashingly unlikely that TC would have adopted it, which was my point.

I wanted to thump TC in the chest when he wouldn't stay and watch Gregory's first joust.

Yes, the chest-thumping seemed unlikely, but I suppose it was for dramatic purposes, and I like the idea that it was alluding to his worldly knowledge.

In reality they were probably wafting pomanders under his nose or something...

Or waving the bones (from the 40,000 available) of Lazarus under his nose.

By the thrice beshitted shroud of Lazarus, that's crazy!

I went to Hampton Court yesterday and the king himself asked me for advice . Cromwell was there too, looking quietly watchful and more plausible than MR. It was fab, highly recommend.

Heh Countess? You been sniffing the relics of St. Hallucinationus again?

BOF I 'd forgotten the thrice-beshitted shroud Waving that under Henry's nose would have had him up quicker than any smelling salts or thump on chest.

Really interested in that shroud - any theologians know why it was THRICE beshitted?

Countess - I have lurked on this thread until now but your comment about Hampton Court made me smile. When we were there Anne Boleyn took a shine to my 7yo DD, who still glows with the memory. Absolutely brilliant.

They were terrific. Henry had amazing presence and was totally plausible as the young Henry and rather hot. Wolsey actually brought a tear to my eye.

Oh, the best, best bit though: among the other visitors was this blonde Cockney woman who had very strong feelings about Wolsey and how Henry should not betray him. Having listened to her harangue but not taken any notice of it, Henry said 'I know what I could do. I could send Wolsey to York,' and she said in this absolutely horrified voice, 'You can't do that, it's in the north!'
She was so fabulous. If by any distant chance she's a MNer and is on this thread - you were ace.

Hampton Court was great all round. The audioguide in the Tudor bit had Alison Weir on it, too - it was like listening to a fascinating radio programme but in the actual place.