Henry VIII, eh? What a bastard.

[TunipTheVegemal]

I just feel there should be an ongoing thread on what a vile piece of work Henry VIII was where people can leave their opinions on the complete and utter appallingness of Henry VIII.

Of course, this being Mumsnet someone will probably come along and say IABVU and he was actually very nice.

(What sparked this off, btw, was me discovering that the Pilgrimage of Grace marched past where my house is, having mustered troops a mile away. Now every time I have to go into the garden at night I will imagine rotting corpses swinging from the trees - he had some of the rebels hanged in their own back gardens and some women got into trouble for cutting down their husband's bodies when they were supposed to leave them there to rot as a warning. What a bastard.)

I have nothing whatsoever to add to this really interesting conversation except to say to Tunip that the title of this thread is my fave of all MN threads, I think. Makes me smile every time I see it. "Henry VIII, eh? What a bastard." Class .

As you were, history buffs.

1984 ! God I feel old.

I think that one of the things that interested me about Antonia Fraser's book on the old monster's wives was the fact that she gave some consideration to the idea that he may have been the only king who had more wives than mistresses. I'm pretty sure her conclusion was that this was not actually the case, but he was probably less promiscuous than uxorious in the sense that he always craved the perfect wife and marriage once he had embarked on his marital adventures.

I think Ruby is right, in that had CofA had a son, then he would have been content to remain married to her until one of them died, out of genuine affection if not actual love, and had mistresses etc on the side. Probably would have meant happier people all round, really.

A lot of people are very surprised at how his first marriage is longer than all the others put together, and then some.

"Henry VIII, eh! What a bastard"...

well he was welsh!-

Ah, Tunip and Throckenholt, my first year was 1578 (first time)/1992 so you both pre-date me. But I might know your brothers Tunip.

Oooh have just spent half an hour reading through this thread :) My favourite subject.

I'm gutted as I've just heard that Eric Ives, who wrote the amazing biography of Anne Boleyn, has died of a stroke :( Such an incredible Tudor historian. RIP Professor Ives :(

Not read whole thread yet so not sure if it has been mentioned, but there will be a sequel to Bring up Bodies .

Henry the wife killer, tschiffely the thread killer .

tschiffely

RIP Prof Ives.

Hilary Mantel's Book Club answers thread thing is on at 9pm btw.

Hi, tschifflely. I have killed more threads than you can imagine.

RIP Prof Ives....excellent book on Jane Grey. Hilary Mantel is aweeesom in rl.

How did I miss this?

How???

You missed Henry VIII being a bastard for 500 years?

Bringing some shallowness to the thread here, but I find it facinating that the women were so tall! Elizabeth was 5'10, mary Queen of Scots 5'11, and Mary of Guise (Mary's mum) 6'2"

I suppose I just imagine everyone being short back then, considering I'm the same height as Elizabeth and have got to be careful not to knock my head when I visit castles and suchlike!!

Wow, I never knew that! I had always vaguely imagined Elizabeth as being small but with a big personality.
Perhaps I was thinking of Queen Victoria who really was tiny.

Here is an article from the Daily Mail about how tall kings and queens have been.

Ooh, I might have got it wrong about Elizabeth then. The Stuarts were all tall though. I remember hearing that Mary of Guise was a potential wife for Henry VIII but she refused, saying something like she may be very tall but her neck was very delicate

I really want to like Mary Stuart being Scottish and all and living quite near to Kinross and her other stomping grounds.

But it is hard to have sympathy for someone who was complicit in the murder of her husband, even though he was a drunken idiot who had her favourite servant murdered in front of her.

I like to imagine Mumsnet, circa 1566

"AIBU to allow my lords to kill my DH and his servants so I can marry the (married) hot border lord who will kill him for me? It sounds bad, I know but I am the Queen...."

KatieScarlett you must live near me! I went to LochLeven for the first time in the summer even though I've lived around here all my life......

DH and I are off to either Stirling Castle or Falkland Palace tomorrow. He has agreed to come along if I return the favour by light shopping for a new light on Friday .

and you both live near 'home' for me, though am now in the desert.... have enjoyed introducing the kids to Loch Leven and Stirling castles though; Falkland is waiting for another holiday....

funny, I never think of mumsnetters as potentially living in that part of Scotland!

The word antidisestablishmentarianism has been used on the gay marriage thread.

[waves back to KatieScarlett and desertgirl]

It's amazing the amount of Scottish MNer's there are!

I love the amount of history that is around this area, Im only 30 minutes away from Edinburgh city centre, 40 minutes away from Stirling.....it's a fab place to be

Falkland Palace are doing a ghost tour for kids the last weekend in October, that should be good!

Had to pop on and say that when on pilgrimage to Walsingham (marian shrine in Norfolk), there's a special We Hate Henry VIII hymn that everyone sings, with a verse that goes like this:

But at last came a King who had greed in his eyes
And he lusted for treasure with fraud and with lies.

The order went forth; and with horror ?twas learned
That the Shrine was destroyed and the Image was burned.

And here where God?s Mother had once been enthroned
The souls that stayed faithful ?neath tyranny groaned.

Always makes me !

I have a question about that bastard Henry and his level of bastardness, please, if anyone can help me.

In January 1538, having executed and attainted a number of rebels from the Pilgrimage of Grace the previous year, there is a list of people who he 'holds in most benign remembrance'. It includes the widows and children of the attainted.

Soooooo, having executed their dads and removed their titles and property with the attainder, he holds them in benign remembrance? So what does this MEAN? It feels like a bit of a 'ner ner ne ner ner', unless it is accompanied by some kind of return of property. Anyone know?

It means he's more or less forgiven them, I would think, he's playing Magnanimous Sovereign and saying he forgives them for being related to nasty traitors.