DD decided against applying for Oxbridge

[SinuousTendrils]

My DD has finally decided not to apply for Oxbridge. Of course i realise she had a slim chance of getting in but I'd really hoped she'd throw her hat in the ring. With the current graduate jobs market as it is, I thought she might be in with a chance of a golden ticket if she got in.
Is it really that dire out there? Would a talented high achiever really struggle to find a career after uni? I've been advising her to consider her STEM subjects rather than literature, which i think she'd enjoy more...thinking at Oxbridge humanities degrees still have currency...it's so hard, isn't it?!

oxbridge on a cv is very polarising. I was a headhunter for over 20 years and heard the comments when colleagues saw that on a resume. Also some of the courses are really dated and leaning heavily on the name. It depends on the course and better to check the research facilities and rankings by department not uni- personally I have DCs who went to London unis and the networking and work experience opportunities wasn’t something we considered for but has been amazing and got them on amazing paths in law and in the city. Both mine got rejected by oxbridge ( I did say about the polarising aspect but their sixth forms encouraged them to apply and they went with that advice ) and at the time
it was a huge disappointment but now the amount of times they are so grateful they did because they’re very settled and comfortable in the city .

There is no magic pass at any university. Mine chose and loved Oxford for the teaching methods rather than prestige. Both are still in academia because they love their subjects so time will tell if and when they get jobs.

It would not have suited me at all, but it was right for them.

The current post-university jobs market is a nightmare. One of DD’s best friends got a first in Maths from Durham and has only just got a job a year later (apart from in a coffee shop). A couple have 2.1s in English from Russell group Universities are working in a gym and restaurant and a 1st in Computer Science also took nearly a year for a non graduate job but one that does have prospects. My colleague has a Music degree and joined us for a summer placement. Still here permanently now, although most of the team are GCSE level. I don’t think any have A Levels.

My take is that you should only go to University, any university, if there is a subject that you want to study. Don’t just go with the expectation of ‘a better job’, because there is no guarantee.

This is very true but equally there will be lots of people who have got graduate jobs that they would have never got without their degree.

It took me 10 months to get on a grad scheme after leaving uni, if you looked at me in that 10 month period you might think uni isn’t worthwhile, if you look at me now 15 years later you would. You could do my job without a degree but it would be a lot harder to get in to

I completely agree with this and also remember (harking back to @theredcar's refrain that parents need to think about what's happening now rather than when we graduated) - when I graduated in the early 90s there were NO graduate jobs and the job market was a disaster. I, like many of my friends and despite having 'prestigious' university pedigrees, had to roll our sleeves up and make our way regardless. Many of us started at the bottom in various industries - often in reception or admin positions - and worked our way up from there.

The difference between then and now is that we weren't entering university knowing we were getting ourselves into £50k debt, and so we could be a bit more acceptant of that situation. There is an expectation now that for the cost, a decent graduate job on exit should be attainable - and it increasingly doesn't feel like it is. I had a friend send me her Cambridge grad son's cv in desperation last year because 18 months post graduating he still hadn't found a job. s This is a good FT video I saw a few months back that does a good job of showing the uncertainty even CEOs have right now around how to plan for the impact AI will have on entry level grad jobs.

It leads me back to that with all this uncertainty, to some degree we have to accept that and follow the thing that excites us. Yes have an ear to what's going on and be aware of the direction a degree will take you (or not). Or decide not to go to university and don't be saddled with the debt. I have certainly changed my perception of the value - and would not be recommending that my children doggedly pursue university as a desirable destination no matter what.

Blimey, it's bleak.
So many things to consider.

But this isn't a new thing or unique to the current post grad situation.
I graduated in the financial crash in 2008 went and got a masters (with distinction) and it still took several years to get into a career role in a STEM topic.

It's about expanding expertise and experience alongside degrees or working (often unpaid) or doing side move 6 month contract jobs to gain experience in the meantime.

The idea that a good degree automatically leads to graduate position without the extras is long gone and its been 18 years since I finished uni.

There are no guarantees, but I think alongside choice of subject and choice of uni young people need to look at how they are using the uni experience. Are they building paid or voluntary work experience? Are they seeking out positions of responsibility? (course rep.? running a club or society?) Are they building team working and leadership skills? (sports teams, plays, music groups) The young people who are best placed will have used their uni years to build up a portfolio of experiences as well as got an academic qualification. Employers want more than knowledge and intellect.

Exactly. Big employers had been complaining for many years that the graduates they employed frequently didn't have the skills needed for the workplace, and that they were spending a fortune on training. That was a major part of the reason for introducing the modern apprenticeship programme and sponsored degrees like PWC's Flying Start degrees - so employers could upskill young people from a younger age. Undergraduates need to build high quality experiences into their CVs to remain competitive.

Why do you want her to go so much? My dad wanted me to go for his own ego. My mum cautioned being careful and thinking about workload. I think my mum was right

Yes this is why I would always advocate not only a field they’d find genuine enjoyment in, but also a vocational course (of any type) that leads to a specific skill set or ‘trade’- so that self-employment would be an option. Courses with a placement year can also be very helpful

Yep, agree, but with one health warning - universities offer placed on courses that are attractive to students in order to increase their own income, not because the courses are in demand by employers. So beware of courses that are very niche - e.g. Computer Science with an optional module in Game Design, supplemented by related extra curricular, will be more employable than a whole degree in Game Design and nothing else. A general Marketing degree, supplemented by some work experience and/or relevant volunteering, will be much more employable than a Fashion Marketing degree and nothing else. Etc.

Graduate employment stats for each course are on UCAS, but they're reliant on survey data so they may not be available where numbers are low, or may be aggregated across departments.

A degree means far less than it used to. It is the equivalent of Maths and English at O level these days like the 80's. Your DD needs to work experience, possibly volunteer work, internships in what she wants to do to have a hope in getting a related job.

From what I saw at the open days, Cambridge is on another level for maths compared to Warwick. Lectures on Saturdays and evenings and now Cambridge ask for the TMUA and STEP entrance exams whereas all the other top maths unis just ask for TMUA - even Oxford.

i don’t know how accurate it is, but I’ve heard it said more than once that Cambridge maths fits in as much in 3 years of eight week terms as Warwick does in 4 years.

It’s for all these reasons, I’m wary about DS applying to Cambridge but he’s adamant he wants to give it a go.

If your DD was thinking of doing joint maths and philosophy at Oxford, she might have dodged a bullet. The joint maths courses there (also including CS) are supposedly insanely demanding.

Not sure how accurate this but indicative maybe.....maybe vindicating of my initial thinking..
thetab.com/2026/06/19/ranked-all-24-russell-group-unis-by-graduate-employment-in-qs-rankings-queens-belfast-last

There will be a lot of factors that go into that though and not just the university itself.

Just help your daughter to work out what she wants to do, gain a breadth of experience and develop a range of skills.

Ah, but you need to be careful of this. Look at how the QS Employment Outcomes score is calculated. It adds together two metrics:

Alumni Impact: Measures whether a uni has produced grads who have gone on to "make a significant impact in society". They analyse a database of 80,000+ “impactful graduates” across business, politics, higher education, and charities, then attributes those alumni back to their universities

Graduate Employment Index: defined as the percentage of grads who enter paid employment within 15 months of completing their degree. Grads doing voluntary work, further study, or unavailable for work (e.g. because of military service, disability, travel, or caring responsibilities) are excluded.

The first indicator will be heavily skewed by past employment practices (such as the "old boys network" and non-uni-blind recruitment), not by present employment practices.

However, even without that, you should also ask yourself whether those impactful people got to where they are because they went to Oxbridge or whether they got to Oxbridge because they were impactful people.

The second indicator is the important one, so you should look at that independently. It comes from Gov.uk open source data here: https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/graduate-labour-markets/2024 and it is the same data that is included in UCAS course listings. When your DD decides which course she wants to do she will be able to compare the graduate employment data for that specific course at different unis of interest.

The government data comes from an annual graduate survey (15 months after graduating) and distinguishes between percentage of grads employed in any job and percentage of grads employed in jobs commonly related to their course of study. The latter is a very rough measure ... clear cut for Medicine degrees, less so for English degrees. Its not clear which of those has been used in the QS measure.

Youngest DC did a niche sport at uni, often competing against city (ie non-uni teams). Made a wide circle of friends and through one of these was tipped off about a role in the finance arm of a local big company. Got the job and is now almost at the end of accountancy exams. Was exempted from the first few modules because of their Economics degree. And because of that degree was also already a whizz at Excel. Very bright and academically able, but not interested in Oxbridge. Had heard too many horror stories from me about current student life.

I have one studying a STEM subject at Oxbridge. In some ways I believe she is at a disadvantage when it comes to finding an internship/job.
One, corporates have broadened their target universities and ensure they don’t hire too many Oxbridge graduates. Two, finding a spring week/summer internship/grad job is extremely time consuming so she basically had to make a choice between that or studying towards getting top marks.
This year she prioritised the former (finding an internship/filling in applications/prepping for tests and interviews) but it meant she couldn’t study as hard as she should have and won’t be getting good marks.
Throughout this process she’s met a lot of students studying at other universities who were extremely well prepared, having a lot more time in their hands to get up to speed with technicals and interview prep.

That being said she loves every other aspect of it, the city, the social life, the traditions, her tutors so is not looking back. She’s just had to come to terms with having a 2:1 at best and being a lot busier than her friends at other universities throughout her 4 year degree.

I also have a year 12 with 4 A star predictions who is a genuine all rounder and also still doing Maths and Further Maths plus a language and Econ. She could probably have done most A levels as well.

Thing about Oxbridge is they do not seem to look for all rounders primarily good at everything, but look for those passionate about the subject they want to study, in most subjects. However, it is different for eg Law/PPE/Econ - where you can read up quickly and become “passionate” etc Your DD as she does not seem to know what she wants to do precisely yet has perhaps just excluded herself on that basis? Why not go to the open days coming up soon and attend the eg PPE talk at Oxford which really is quite Mathsy/Logic based with Philosophy thrown in as well. Seems weird to just exclude without going for the tour.
My DD was like yours just a few months ago. They are all tired after mocks. My DD now reading around her subject and attaining open days with her friends doing the whole self discovery thing and has already done her first draft of UCAS and I think made her realise she has so much more to say than she thought. They have until September to figure this one out - which unis/which courses, what the differences are. From what I can tell the extra exam hurdles for some top unis do put them off a little when they are exhausted.
My DD is also still not sure but hoping for a little more certainty after attending open days and really focussing on reading up on courses.

Tip for all rounders at Edinburgh you do two years of random courses alongside your main degree. And very impressive university.

It was not for us but the lovely friend of DDs we went with sounds like the dcs on this thread extremely intelligent and good at everything. This is not a description of people in our family sadly!

I should also say it can depend very much on the support your school offers potential candidates. My DC went to a comp where there was none. And but for the fact that their dad went to Oxford eons ago, the whole process would have daunted. Compare with the local private school, which devoted wednesday afternoons throughout lower sixth to medical school and oxbridge prep, and you can see why often it's easier to just say 'I don't fancy it'.
That said, DS was among 5 from his year who attained oxbridge - a record number from a comp which went on to special measures a handful of years later Exceptional cohort and nothing to do with the school!

Same here. It would have needed loads of extra prep that I just wasn’t interested in aged 17 or whatever and I was too busy at my Saturday job, directiing a school drama production and dating dodgy boys. I learned so much about life that year. I went to an RG university that allowed me to take joint honours and spend a year at a European university that was honestly the best year of my life. I don’t have any regrets about not trying for Oxbridge.

I was going to suggest PPE though for the OP’s DD as well, but you don’t have to go to Oxford for it. I quite fancied it myself but my greatest passion was for my language and the inability of Oxbridge degrees to let you combine subjects with a language really put me off.