Is Trinity Hall Cambridge right about elite schools?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

Interesting position but maybe there are those at Cambridge that think encouraging students from the state sector has gone too far? Wonder if other colleges will follow suit.

Foggytree · Today 11:31
Yes perhaps I shouldn't have said pushy, but some of these posts are gobsmackingly elitist.
Really? I would say some people are giving their anecdotal evidence to back up their points of view and others using gathered data. Clearly a reasonable spectrum of people on this thread and it is all very interesting and valid.

But Trinity Hall Cambridge is an elite educational establishment. Isn't the conversation about the balance they take between being elitist, encouraging applications from all school sectors and making decisions on merit. Or focusing on encouraging applications from pupils from the state sector in the belief that this helps social mobility.

The wider point is that it is useful to be able to debate without accusations of pushy or elitist. Most people here are contributing in good faith.

One of the things that concerns me in this debate is the suggestion that if Trinity Hall is not getting enough good applicants for some subjects it should alter its academic offering. The problem with that argument is that the subjects studied at the majority of schools in the UK is effectively dictated by the government when setting policy and funding for schools. SO if funding is cut for eg MFL then fewer DC in the state sector will be able to study it. So there will be fewer state applicants for MFL courses - we are already seeing a number of unis talk about closing their MFL and classics and music departments. As PPs have said up thread there are fewer and fewer schools where DC can study MFL beyond French and Spanish but MFL are a great subject not just in terms of language skills but also immersion in other cultures.

Are HK or Singapore parents “pushy”? Is that good or bad??

That's an entirely different issue to this. But I wouldn't refer to them pejoratively for wanting the best for their children.

@Londonmummy66 They should maintain their academic status. If that means a few courses are skewed to independent school applicants, so be it. Any overseas parent is rich to afford the fees! However these dc enrich our universities but not sure how many come here to study classics and MFL. They are minority subjects so keep them at the academic standard commensurate with Cambridge.

Dd did a taster course at a London university. It made her adamant she didn’t want to go there as two thirds of the cohort were Chinese who would not interact socially or with the lecturers during the sessions despite efforts from the non Chinese students and the lecturers to include them.

I wonder if this will percolate out - that the more world famous institutions will be for overseas students and the locals will want the more traditional student experience that we had so will go to Leeds / Nottingham etc instead? That’s what I am seeing anyway? My teens are just normal quite academic but . not the superstar Oxbridge types that everyone else on these threads seems to have!

@TheaBrandt1 I assume the contributors to this thread are likely to have Oxbridge connections either directly themselves or via DC given the topic is about an Oxbridge College.

Pushy is a perfectly good shorthand for a certain type of parent, very familiar to parents in high achieving schools. They are the ones who pester the school/ teachers with emails, overstay their allotted time at parents evenings, get involved with homework, are competitive in relation to other parents and all too often have ambitions for their DC which aren't merited by the DC's ability. I have no qualms whatsoever in using the term pushy.

Which course was it? In STEM, the lecture hall is rarely the hub of social life. There’s often a big gap in how quickly people grasp the content, too. At Cambridge, for instance, two third maths students often skip the live lectures entirely and just watch the recordings at double speed to save time.

Both of my younger two are at London superselective grammar schools which apparently is where all the pushy parents go.
I do not think they pester teachers much. There is however a very active parent WhatsApp group even in year 7 which I find quite helpful. You can ask pretty much anything and someone will respond instantly or provide extremely detailed information. They also most definitely do not compete with each other. It is more supportive of each other. I suspect elite private schools are similar.

On the whole, elite schools do not have “pestering” parents much. They have supportive parents who do what the school tells them to do and provide financial assistance and donations and PTA time. That is why these schools do so well. Most of these schools are also very oiled machines who do things their way and parents are more figuring out how to follow the instructions.

Araminta2003 obviously I don't know what year group your DC are in but as a seasoned superselective parent myself, as well as a long standing governor at a superselective, I can assure you that certain parents pester and the staff - particularly the senior staff - are always well aware of who the parents are.

This is said on the back of years and years of uninterrupted experience, from both sides of the table.

London Universities do find it difficult to attract British students from outside London and the SE, especially those who are not from ethnic minorities. (Those from private schools being the exception.) Issues around cost and concern about "University experience". The richer Universities, especially Imperial, do what they can do what they can in terms of bursaries, but it is what it is. If British students decide that "the Chinese" won't mix, so be it.

London Universities have a good track record for outreach from less advantaged London schools/London populations. Often the target pupils will prefer Imperial over Cambridge. Partly for cost, but also because they offer more of a known environment.

The Chinese diaspora is enormous and "the Chinese" can be quite diverse. Amongst DS' friends one came from mid-Wales where his family owned a restaurant and who was only too keen to be somewhere where he was not different. Another came from an outer London suburb. A third, with an affluent Hong Kong background, had attended a major public school. A fourth had a father who worked for an American multinational so had grown up away from China. And so on. Two of his close friends were second generation Londoners (one Polish, one from SE Asia) whose parents were manual workers. My own experience of LSE, many many years ago, and even then the only Brit on my course, is that the diversity can be enriching, but you need to embrace it. It is not for everyone. Oddly a regular complaint from London students who study elsewhere is that places like Bristol can feel quite monocultural.

And "pushy" parents can also be found within the private sector. But not everyone. Wasn't it one of the arguments for reducing access to private schools. Parents who prioritised education would get "involved" in state school life and raise standards.

Had DC gone to the nearest state school we would, almost certainly, have kept a closer eye, bringing in tutors where necessary etc. Instead we were paying for education in a school we had chosen and so were happy to let them get on with it. Plus we were too busy working to earn enough to pay the fees, to have the time to micromanage.

@Milmington - I am sure there are a few crazies at all schools, but generally, elite schools have a massive advantage in that parents care about grades, as a group, and do as they are told to fulfil that purpose and kit the kids out, send them in on time, feed them etc etc All the stuff that some more disadvantaged schools can really struggle with, every single day. There are a lot of instructions coming from schools these days, which are a challenge for many people to fit into their lives. All schools with stringent entry criteria will by definition have parent groups that will comply. Most the kids will have gone to bed on time. All this stuff matters hugely.

Oxbridge is also very unique in determining exactly what needs to be done for admissions and is also a bit “my way or the high way” and ”we know best”. So I do reckon it can be that fundamental elitism that puts some students off. I do question whether it would be just easier to allocate up to 10 per cent to more disadvantaged students based on top grades alone, but then those students would not get the benefit of having to make the effort to go to the interview and admissions test - which can be another way for them to get to know the place and figure out if it is for them.
Like I said, disadvantage to me would mean no parent educated to university level, or at least not to Russell Group standard uni level. But as they cannot verify for overseas easily, it is too subjective to do it that way. People could just lie.

No very definitely not everyone in the grammar school sector either. Quite a noticeable number though Needmoresleep, in every cohort, without fail.

I am sure there are a few crazies at all schools, but generally, elite schools have a massive advantage in that parents care about grades, as a group, and do as they are told to fulfil that purpose and kit the kids out, send them in on time, feed them etc etc All the stuff that some more disadvantaged schools can really struggle with, every single day. There are a lot of instructions coming from schools these days, which are a challenge for many people to fit into their lives. All schools with stringent entry criteria will by definition have parent groups that will comply. Most the kids will have gone to bed on time. All this stuff matters hugely.

'Crazies' is far more pejorative than 'pushy'!

Araminta1003 I think you may simply have a slightly rosy view of your fellow parents. As with all social groups everywhere, most people are moderate and pleasant. Unfortunately these pushy parents pop up frequently and from the school's point of view they can cause enormous disruption. Most of the time parents don't disrupt, but the minute there's a blip then it can be email after email, demands for meeting after meeting. These things aren't usually visible to other parents, unless the parent in question makes a big hoo ha publicly and starts moaning about their grievance. In extreme cases they launch formal complaints which the governing body has to deal with. It can be ridiculously time consuming tbh and in every case that I can recall not well founded but borne of what Needmoresleep has just referred to as micromanaging.

is that the diversity can be enriching, but you need to embrace it. It is not for everyone

@Needmoresleep That is true, but when there is a large cohort from, say, China, they tend to stick together and not welcome embrace from Western students.

This is true in Dds school, vast majority join the sixth form. In spite of all the efforts from home students ( can only talk about my daughter and her friends) ,the Chinese students stay in their own group apart from one girl who interacts with the home students.Dd and her friends were very excited to have overseas students initially and tried their best.
This particular girl is really sweet and self invited herself to Dds birthday party.

They do not mix with UK born Chinese students either. One of Dds close friend is a Uk born Chinese girl.

Dd goes to a small private school, many students are from middle class family and it’s the first time she and her friends are exposed to the uber wealthy life style of the foreign students.
Their science and maths knowledge is way ahead of the UK students. Her private school gets really good A level results mostly due to the overseas students.
A lot of them are under incredible pressure to get good grades and go to certain selective universities.

@Milmington - I really do not think the grammar schools my DC are at entertain vexatious or micromanaging parents much. Perhaps your grammar needs to push back harder or just not respond and have an internal policy to that effect. Grammar schools are massively oversubscribed and can fill places easily, at a drop of a hat. Not sure why they would be bending over backwards. Vexatious parents can leave if they want. I know for a fact elite private schools also operate on that basis - stop responding and gentle nudge to the door. Getting a free grammar education is a privilege.
To be clear, I obviously don’t mean any unmet SEND or mental health needs that can make parents anxious.
Have also been a governor for many years.

Araminta1003 tbh I think our SLT is of sufficient quality to know what it's doing. That's why its sought out by successive governments for advice on national issues. Pushy parents exist, are a pain, should do their DC (and their school and their school's other pupils) a favour and chill the fuck out.

Apologies, because I think this is a tangent.

Araminta1003, when you say you're on the governing body, is that of the superselective that your DC attend, or an other secondary school in the state sector, or a primary school, or an independent, at whatever level? Because tbh if you are on the governing body of a London superselective and haven't encountered the disruption which can be caused by pushy parents, I'm floored.

@Milmington - variety of schools, primary and secondary - for me, all state (but various family members independent). I originally got into it quite early through a work volunteer programme, so before having my own children. And the first lot of schools was back when some London schools were really struggling.

Just to go back to the destination statistics for leading selective private schools there will be many Oxbridge rejects amongst the leavers. Maybe Trinity is trying to get the incredibky talented academic pupils from those schools who deserve Oxbridge places to maybe widen their degree considerations to say MFL so they get the Oxbridge places they deserve and the college gets the candidate it deserves.

There are probably many stories from the selective indy schools about incredible academics who are being rejected from Oxbridge and maybe it is right to give guidance about degree choice by colleges instead of being victims of schadenfreude.

But these are the courses which are already incredibly independent school heavy mids2019, and the top independents are well aware of their advantage in the subjects as well as the abilities/ Oxbridge potential of their pupils.

Someone is saying Trinity above, have we stopped talking about Trinity Hall?

Regarding Cambridge Uni, I'm delighted to say several colleges are posting a lot in social media about their initiatives for state schools. Please don't use Trinity Hall as a yardstick. Plus they have definitely had a rocky few years with leadership issues and safeguarding and this just makes it look like their governing body/management is still a mess.