Is Trinity Hall Cambridge right about elite schools?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

Interesting position but maybe there are those at Cambridge that think encouraging students from the state sector has gone too far? Wonder if other colleges will follow suit.

So to what factor does Cambridge attribute the greater academic performance of independently educated students?

Was that ‘chippiness’ ? I was only saying my favourite restaurants whilst at uni.. I doubt my kids will go to the same ones. They’re richer than I was.

Imperial hss an amazing reputation now.

"There is no course switch involved from NatSci to History and Philosophy of Science. Specialising in the latter is one of the many NatSci pathways."

Perhaps not technically a course switch, but the two students I know who did that recently were both devastated to do so: they had started their science education path wanting to be research scientists and concluded at very great psychological pain that they weren't cut out for that.

Surely this is why many universities added a very exclusive, luxurious, expensive student accommodation option to its offerings. Everyone else at that university knows that's where the rich international students live.

In London there is a huge range of accommodation and quite a lot of international students rent on the open market or live in property owned by their family. But I agree - some of the less obviously "safe upper middle class space" universities have built university accommodation to a higher spec to meet the needs of international students.

I thought it was the other way round. I read somewhere that there was a kind of academic reset when ppl got to Oxbridge, and that state educated kids often got more 2:1s and firsts than independently educated kids.

Ski resorts in Japan, Korea and Australia. There are a few all inclusive ski resorts in Asia which works out cheaper than Europe with ski passes and food being cheaper.

Surely this is why many universities added a very exclusive, luxurious, expensive student accommodation option to its offerings. Everyone else at that university knows that's where the rich international students live.

Can well off British students live in this accommodation, or is it only available for overseas students?

It's normally open to anyone - discrimination on the basis of nationality would be complicated. But cultural preferences vary and the British are often not looking for quite the same spatial organisation or facilities.

International parents also normally prioritise safety. After all their DC are on the other side of the world. So private halls for second and third years or a shared flat in a plush residential area. (Albeit often over occupying to keep costs down.) Study is the priority so noisy halls are avoided.

Sending kids to the UK to study is still a big deal in many Commonwealth countries though as universities like NUS head up the rankings perhaps less so. Rich is a broad term. Many will have middle class parents who prioritise education and are stretching themselves.

@38thparallel In universities like Bristol, ex boarders tend to look at a few halls, mostly catered. The accommodation is a long way from swanky! Shared bathrooms (very old) and a tiny snack area as well as old furniture are the norm. I’ve found dc from parents who haven’t spent on private education take the posh flats neared the university or city centre and those from overseas but not necessarily.

@ceramiq @OhDear111

Thank you for answering my questions.

Yes of course, but they will be the ones who eat out and ski....

None. They don't talk about it. They stopped publishing exam data by school type in 2017, if you want to find this now you have to make an FOI request.

In their 2022 study into the factors affecting outcomes they avoid references to school type in their executive summary, discussion, and conclusions, despite the fact that it was as significant as the factors that they do discuss, at length.

https://www.cao.cam.ac.uk/files/attainment_outcomes.pdf

But if you move from a position where students of type x and y perform equally well - because the admission system is type-blind and considers only ability - to a system arbitrarily designed to admit more x and fewer y, then predominantly lower calibre y applicants will not be admitted, raising the average ability of y students that survive the admission process. Even without moving the bar for x at entry - lower GCSEs at Oxford, and lower UMS in old money at Cambridge - a performance gap between x and y will emerge.

Although Oxbridge admission has many videos, information on their website - it’s still a bit of a mystery for some schools and parents.
I do think Oxbridge have process to recognise private school who send few students to Oxbridge. If you are a bright child studying in a smaller private school who is not from London and the South East - why would you waste your UCAS choice by applying to oxbridge when you know that you don’t have any advantages of going to a state school and don’t have any help in preparing for the interview by your private school.
From their perspective it makes absolute sense not to apply to Oxbridge and target UCL/Durham / LSE / Kings.

Two extremely bright kids I know went to IVY league universities last year, they were scholarship students in our local private school.

"There's just not enough places for all the talented and hard working young people" - if they apply from independent schools.

The number of students from comprehensive schools leaving with third class degrees has far outpaced the increase in POLAR4 Q1 admissions from comprehensive schools that Cambridge has managed to achieve.

Then there is George Abaraonye with ABB. So there do appear to be places for young people who are not especially "talented and hard working" from state schools.

@ProfessorLayton1My DD is from the SE? Why does region matter? Are you saying these dc are most discriminated against? Quite possibly but not everyone wants the USA and only some unis are needs blind. My DD wanted a subject best studied here. USA wasn’t remotely on her radar and wouldn’t be now.

My understanding is that London private and South East schools are very academic.

@Marchesman For a third time, there are kids with straight A stars at sixth form colleges also not getting in. So it could be said equally that some kids at independent schools without straight A stars are effectively robbing these kids of their places? Certainly Manchester Grammar School (for example) had lads going to Oxbridge without straight A stars in the 2025 application cycle. Or perhaps there is no realistic alternative other than to trust the process that interviews sort the better candidates out?

You are correct, it was the other way round. There is an influential paper by Smith and Naylor - "Schooling effects on subsequent university performance: evidence for the UK university population" - to which I can't find a link at present, that showed state schooled students performed better at university than privately educated students with matched prior attainment, but not at the top level of ability and as far as I recall only for one gender at Oxford(?). But that was published in 2005 and would have included applicants from the1990s.

Parks produced later results specifically for Cambridge that refuted this. In the press, he strongly opposed changing the system, accurately predicting the consequences for mental health etc.

www.repository.cam.ac.uk/items/f078d994-e75d-45d7-ab6b-fcefc6cbd214

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, anecdotal evidence is not a substitute for well designed multiple regression analysis.

Yeah, thought I read that somewhere.

But ultimately these students are people, not just data points. Which is why these universities go through the time and trouble of interviewing them.

@Marchesman OK. So the reason that independently educated students perform better at Cambridge in recent years is discrimination against privately educated students at the point of admission? Something that is way too political to admit hence obfuscation of data.