Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Is Trinity Hall Cambridge right about elite schools?

1000 replies

mids2019 · 07/01/2026 20:19

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

Interesting position but maybe there are those at Cambridge that think encouraging students from the state sector has gone too far? Wonder if other colleges will follow suit.

Cambridge college to target elite private schools for student recruitment

Exclusive: Trinity Hall’s new policy described as a ‘slap in the face’ for state-educated students

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
DearestItIsSnowing · 10/01/2026 20:24

Here is part of an email the Master of Trinity Hall sent yesterday to its former students who are on their mailing list:

“To be clear, there has been no change to our admissions policy or our commitment to widening participation, and we continue to work very hard to support and attract students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

We propose to add some additional schools to the email lists we use to share information about our existing online initiatives, for a small number of humanities subjects in particular, where applicant numbers are falling across higher education.The aim is to try to increase the number of applications we receive for those subjects from students with appropriate qualifications, from all backgrounds.

This activity does not affect our overall Admissions Policy and the outreach work we currently undertake.

The College is very proud of the progress it has made in widening participation. Admissions from state schools in the past three years averaged 73% and we have seen a rise in the admission of students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds to 20.4% in recent years. This is more than many Oxbridge colleges and Russell Group universities.”

DearestItIsSnowing · 10/01/2026 20:29

Apologies if that extract from an email from the (female) Master of TH has been shared here previously. I have read the whole thread, but missed it if it has.

DearestItIsSnowing · 10/01/2026 20:32

The email goes on to say:

Our efforts, which have made a demonstrable impact on our admissions statistics, include:

We plan to continue and expand these activities in the years to come.

Juja · 10/01/2026 22:55

@ScaredOfFlying your experience sounds similar to my DD who is doing MFL at Oxbridge at the moment some 30 years on. She studied two MLs at her northern comprehensive at GCSE plus Latin was a twilight GCSE subject. Switched to a grammar school and did two MLs for A Level, one the same as GCSE and one she picked up during Covid when she had time when GCSEs were cancelled. As said above if you're a natural linguist (which I'm not) it isn't impossible to get to Grade 9 in GCSE in 5 months. She ended school with 4 different languages by all taught in the state sector. And now has a 5th that she has added at Uni.

Like you DD did deferred entry and spent a year in one country before going up. Her second language is ab initio and she is spending her third year there.

And DD managed growing up to listen to Radio 4, travel, go to the theatre despite being at a state school.

BTW My DH was at Tit Hall and is horrified by their approach. It is very lazy and we were both at schools in the list Tit Hall is seeking to approach. Conversely both our DC were state educated in the North - both ended up at Oxbridge. There are equally bright students at their schools with cultural capital. I suggest Tit Hall expand their horizons beyond the M25 or they will be losing out.

What would help state school candidates is the issue of good critical essay writing that @cantabsupervisor rightly raises. In my view that could be taught through outreach in the gap between students getting offers to when they come up plus have extra classes on arrival. DC1 was disappointed on arrival at his college by the lack of guidance on how to write and prepare for tutorials. These are technical skills that can be taught.

Marchesman · 10/01/2026 23:25

It is rather lazy to stroll into Cambridge on a "disadvantaged" state school ticket from a grammar school or high performing comprehensive school, when stronger candidates from private schools have been very effectively put off from even applying.

Operafanatic · 11/01/2026 04:38

The issue is that Oxbridge have, for historical and traditional reasons, far too many Classics places available. They have not moved with the times - there is a 46% chance of getting in for Classics at Cambridge (2024 admission statistics) vs less than 8% for Computer Science. It is bonkers - but their (far too many) Classics dons need someone to teach I guess. It is way overdue for Oxbridge to align subject places with demand - they should have upped CS places and reduced Classics years ago. Anyone who dives into admission stats and overlays UCAS course demand can immediately see how out of date Oxbridge are. I say this as a parent of a Cambridge student who did a similar (uncompetitive and bloated) course

fairyring25 · 11/01/2026 08:41

@OhDear111 Languages and music are not the most difficult subjects at A-level statistically based on average GCSE score and final outcomes. Music requires parents to pay money for music lessons, which some state school parents cannot afford so bright students can be excluded from.studying this subject based on money. Most students I know doing languages at A-level are bilingual. Therefore, I completely disagree that language and music students are more able.
@januarybikethief By modernising courses, I didn't mean that Cambridge should offer places on YouTube studies as I am sure you are well aware. I mean they should offer less places on Classics and MML to keep up with supply and demand. I am not saying these subjects should go completely but that there should be more spaces for Economics, Computer Science and other subjects that are much more in demand. This could be offered alongside subjects like data science (offered by UCL, LSE, Imperial, Bristol, Warwick), economics and a language, politics, international relations and a language etc. Perhaps classics can be combined with a more popular subject in a joint degree.

RampantIvy · 11/01/2026 08:47

Therefore, I completely disagree that language and music students are more able.

I agree @fairyring25 Those subjects, along with maths, are generally taken by students who have a natural aptitude for them.

Araminta1003 · 11/01/2026 09:35

Elite British universities should keep a balance between STEM degrees and humanities/Phil 1/Arts Type degrees.The critical thought has huge implications on democracies worldwide. However, they can modernise the courses and use the tripos system to their full advantage to position themselves optimally.
Looking at the 2024 admissions statistics, the history with a language now has 94 places. They should offer law with a language potentially too or even another style economics course. Why just have one maths heavy one, for example. Arguably the Econ course at Cambridge is more stem anyway. The impact of classical thought through the ages and on literature and history etc. there are so many ways to keep the traditions but make them more palatable to the modern day student. And maybe they do need to do some more selling. This whole AI ethics question and linguistics and large language models etc etc They should be hitting the interdisciplinary spaces, especially if the academics are saying that is where knowledge is being lost?

Araminta1003 · 11/01/2026 09:39

The relatively new human, social and political sciences course appears very popular on the statistics for 2024. So clearly that is the direction of things. I wouldn’t be churching out more and more STEM just to please a current governmental fad.

Araminta1003 · 11/01/2026 09:42

Also frankly if the fad of the day by politicians is to kill classics, then surely as an institution of critical thought meant to challenge the establishment, you listen but do the opposite. You keep it alive and you think outside the box and you provide it in a way that is exciting and relevant for students. And you don’t get caught up in identity politics.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 11/01/2026 09:43

Muu9 · 09/01/2026 11:42

N is for normal, and is below the A level in terms of rigor/difficulty

N is for Native Level. The levels are stepped. N, O, A.

januarybikethief · 11/01/2026 10:48

Operafanatic · 11/01/2026 04:38

The issue is that Oxbridge have, for historical and traditional reasons, far too many Classics places available. They have not moved with the times - there is a 46% chance of getting in for Classics at Cambridge (2024 admission statistics) vs less than 8% for Computer Science. It is bonkers - but their (far too many) Classics dons need someone to teach I guess. It is way overdue for Oxbridge to align subject places with demand - they should have upped CS places and reduced Classics years ago. Anyone who dives into admission stats and overlays UCAS course demand can immediately see how out of date Oxbridge are. I say this as a parent of a Cambridge student who did a similar (uncompetitive and bloated) course

Edited

This is flat wrong - “demand” is a silly concept given that the issue is not how many applications there are, but how many there are at the standard that’s required. As I posted upthread, CompSci has a lot of applications because it is perceived as a potentially lucrative course; but the low rate of acceptances is down to the fact that the quality of applicants is not that great compared to the numbers. It requires a lot of talent in very high level maths, has a very high offer, and most of the successful applicants are doing maths, further maths, physics plus another science. Computing and coding is popular in schools, but the CompSci Cambridge course is actually really more like a niche form of applied maths. Across the country there are lots of A-level students studying maths and sciences. But not many of them are a good fit for the computer science course, which is not designed to shovel students into tech and software, but is heavily mathematical, theoretical and research-focused (including a 12,000 word research dissertation, which many students hoping for careers in software companies are not really that suited to). It emphatically isn’t a training course to get students jobs at Google and Meta. A lot of it is about the physics of chip design, quantum theory, the mathematical aspects of microelectronics — but many applicants think it’s more about learning to be a software developer, and aren’t that suited to those aspects of the course.

In contrast, applicants for Classics are heavily self-selecting - it’s why lots of the Latin and Greek A-levels overall are awarded As and A*s: they’re difficult A-levels which are only offered in a few schools, and only taken by very small numbers. Students who are motivated to even apply to study Classics tend to be very good at languages and are less motivated by subject fashions or immediate future job prospects — hence the high acceptance rate. Moreover, Classics is a tiny faculty in one tiny building, which has only a small number of academics and students, and is the very opposite of “bloated”. It costs the university hardly anything. It’s also in a completely different “school” (department grouping) to computer science, with a completely different pot of funding. Reducing the number of Classicists would have no impact on the number of places available for computer science.

The point of a university is precisely to offer all intellectual disciplines, not just be a vehicle to train students for currently fashionable or economically popular jobs. If you think of education as “demand and supply”, then what you are thinking of is something that should be provided by employers as job training, or studied at a technical college. A university is about academic disciplines and students who have the intellectual capacity, interest and ability to study them; but a university is also not just about teaching students. It’s about research and scholarship, and teaching undergraduate students is only one part of that (and often quite a small part, in scientific subjects in particular, which can command big research grants and very often see undergraduate teaching as a necessary evil that gets in the way of research, which is where the money is).

In contrast, departments like Classics are much more focused on teaching, since there are few big research grants in the humanities. A Classics undergraduate is very likely to have a lot more individualised teaching and individual attention from academics than a computer science student will have. It’s a completely different experience, and not just some kind of interchangeable “demand” function.

OhDear111 · 11/01/2026 11:07

@fairyring25 Those students who are not bilingual and have done no MFLs before secondary but can get to Oxbridge are bright! I take the point there are few of them. It’s likely music students have a talent too but many maths dc have very engaged mathematical parents. If a linguist has only learnt whilst at school with no parental input, they are bright. Ditto anyone doing classical languages. Most have not been in that environment since birth! I think many students take subjects for which they have a natural aptitude! PE for one. Art. In fact nearly every subject if dc are bright!

cantabsupervisor · 11/01/2026 11:45

januarybikethief · 10/01/2026 16:20

But still - why do we believe that 'cultural capital' and being well-versed in classical literature/the arts etc is so much more important than other kinds of knowledge and skills? I know that in the context of Oxbridge intellectual prowess obviously has to be at the forefront, but why must it go hand in hand with this very narrow definition of what is considered worthwhile knowledge and I don't think questioning that at least amounts to 'dumbing down.' Moreover, if students are reading subjects like English etc they will have to read widely and read around the texts they are specifically studying and if they are doing that thoroughly, as the course progresses they would presumably have increased their 'cultural capital' sufficiently to do well.

I wanted to reply to this because I think the idea of cultural capital is misunderstood by lots of people. It’s not the social window-dressing of having been to lots of plays and museums and so on that’s the thing that is valued when people talk about cultural capital. It’s the fact that having been exposed to more cultural diversity and experiences allows you to make more connections between things; and develop a sense of both the big picture of history, culture, thought etc., and also examples of specific cultural artefacts as well. Calling it “cultural capital” is really a proxy for something more like material to think with.

In arts, humanities and social science disciplines, part of the intellectual discipline is in that big picture thinking - the networks of influences, philosophies and connections that generate ideas and arguments about the “big questions” of the discipline. And part of the discipline is in the detail - the evidence for those big ideas. You need both the big picture and the detail in order to advance an argument, and then back it up with evidence. The more you add to your knowledge, the more you can generate those ideas, and understand the big picture. “Cultural capital” isn’t valued just as some kind of shibboleth or finishing-school polish. It’s really a proxy for saying “knowledge about”.

If you’ve been exposed to lots of different ideas, plays, music and art, then you can start to get a sense of, for example: what is characteristic about seventeenth century culture compared to eighteenth century culture? What styles are fashionable in later twentieth century art compared to early twentieth century art, and why? What are the key features of baroque culture as opposed to classical culture? What are the connections between Shakespeare and Greek drama? Obviously, the more you know about, the easier it becomes for you to start interrogating those questions. People with the talent for these disciplines don’t be necessarily need tons of material to start doing this, but they do need some; and the school and exam system alone doesn’t really provide that much of it any more. Even A-level English only requires one Shakespeare play these days. A-level languages no longer require a significant literature component (I had to do Maupassant, Flaubert, Francoise Sagan and Zola’s Germinal (one of the weightiest French novels ever!) for my French A-level; my niece has read one slim YA French novel for hers). State schools no longer expose students to significant amounts of cultural history (and, of course, some never did). But our wider culture used to at least have some sense that particular poets, artists, writers, composers and so on were important to know about: now, despite much easier access to art and culture of all kinds, many kids just aren’t encouraged to explore what is now thought of as “elite” culture rather than our shared cultural heritage.

These things aren’t important just for social showing off: they’re the material that you begin to develop your intellectual skills with. I’m not romanticising the past, here: there has always been a sharp social divide between those with access to “cultural capital” and those without. But the school curriculum and educational values of postwar culture did actually value the idea of education for its own sake, and art, music, languages, history etc. as an important part of life. Now, much of that consensus has been replaced by valuing only financial capital as a form of success. (No doubt that’s been massively accelerated by tuition fees, the commercialism of everyday life, and so on.) But it’s really notable that you can’t actually easily any more develop the skills required for many traditional academic humanities disciplines just through the school curriculum and popular culture. It doesn’t any longer provide you with a deep sense of what the connections and ideas are that are relevant.

STEM subjects can simply take students with the highest marks in their subjects who can answer science and maths problems; but humanities disciplines are going to be asking applicants things like: Do states create nations, or nations states? Why might Shakespeare refer to a mixture of Christian and Classical gods in some of his plays? Does the geography of Greece have any relationship to why Western philosophy first developed there, and if so, why? Why do you think Surrealist art developed at the time it did? Is studying history a social good, and why? Should law aim to improve life for the population as a whole? What are the connections you perceive between mathematics and art?

And applicants who can think in both broad and deep terms about questions like that are the ones Oxbridge is looking for. They don’t need loads of preparation. But they do need some, and some material to think with. State school applicants can do a lot by just reading around their subject, watching some plays on TV, going to our excellent free art galleries in any part of the country, etc. But it’s not unusual to find applicants who don’t do any reading outside of their school subjects at all. This doesn’t mean they can’t show the skills required to get in; but it makes it a lot more difficult.

Finally, though, most of our applicants and offers are from state schools: so we clearly are able to find good candidates. The numbers and the calibre of these are really declining overall, though, both from state and private sectors, as the education system pushes for STEM subjects above all. Talented kids who could be doing languages, history of art or Classics are being redirected to economics, sciences, business or computing (even if they aren’t really that good at them). But the jury is still out on whether those subjects actually do lead to better jobs and more money. Most STEM grads don’t go into STEM jobs, after all.

Exactly this, @januarybikethief. Beautifully put. It’s about developing that muscle to make connections and spot impact.

I am curious as to what the deleted posts by @ElliesHamster said - can anyone summarise?

DogEard · 11/01/2026 12:08

Well you would say that @januarybikethief -
the idea that the Cambridge compsci/Stem rejects at Imperial and Warwick are not clever/mathematical enough for Cambridge feels a bit self- serving to me (not least since the Warwick contingent seem to do rather well on the phd/academia front subsequently - and just like their musical/latinist peers - the clever kids from northern comps/middle of the road independents, have fat chance of competing with the multiple hours of specialised maths tutoring a week that the St Pauls kids get - sold hard on the website). Its really an ability issue is it, rather that the fact that Cambridge inertia means it hasn't addressed capacity? Would it make you feel a bit better if we agree that chopping Classics isn't the answer? What could Cambridge do instead? Perhaps re-invent an unfashionable college as a STEM-only centre of excellence, a mini-Imperial, to cater for @Araminta1003
's "demand" and to fund @cantabsupervisor 's cultural capital
ambitions. Market mini-Imperial hard internationally to channel and divert the international demand and give the Home kids more of a chance (despite the fact they seem to do just fine at Warwick). Perhaps modernize and improve the pooling system
putting in more checks and balances so one ratty interviewer doesn't derail
an application. Perhaps question whether two women only colleges are still necessary in 2026? Perhaps encourage academics to take a risk on a high potential kid from a northern comp rather than buy in dead cert Asian supply - they might have to work a bit harder, and scaffold more, but geopolitics might support this approach. Unfortunately, and there's the rub, education is a market.

januarybikethief · 11/01/2026 13:08

DogEard · 11/01/2026 12:08

Well you would say that @januarybikethief -
the idea that the Cambridge compsci/Stem rejects at Imperial and Warwick are not clever/mathematical enough for Cambridge feels a bit self- serving to me (not least since the Warwick contingent seem to do rather well on the phd/academia front subsequently - and just like their musical/latinist peers - the clever kids from northern comps/middle of the road independents, have fat chance of competing with the multiple hours of specialised maths tutoring a week that the St Pauls kids get - sold hard on the website). Its really an ability issue is it, rather that the fact that Cambridge inertia means it hasn't addressed capacity? Would it make you feel a bit better if we agree that chopping Classics isn't the answer? What could Cambridge do instead? Perhaps re-invent an unfashionable college as a STEM-only centre of excellence, a mini-Imperial, to cater for @Araminta1003
's "demand" and to fund @cantabsupervisor 's cultural capital
ambitions. Market mini-Imperial hard internationally to channel and divert the international demand and give the Home kids more of a chance (despite the fact they seem to do just fine at Warwick). Perhaps modernize and improve the pooling system
putting in more checks and balances so one ratty interviewer doesn't derail
an application. Perhaps question whether two women only colleges are still necessary in 2026? Perhaps encourage academics to take a risk on a high potential kid from a northern comp rather than buy in dead cert Asian supply - they might have to work a bit harder, and scaffold more, but geopolitics might support this approach. Unfortunately, and there's the rub, education is a market.

Edited

You’re missing the point - the kids who aren’t getting into Cambridge to do computer science aren’t getting into Imperial or Warwick either.

Education is not the kind of market you seem to think it is. The Tory government liked to pretend the student was a “customer” in order to justify the fees; but this really isn’t the case. The top universities are picking from the students - not the other way around!

DogEard · 11/01/2026 13:11

Right. But kids who are getting into imperial and Warwick after having been rejected by Cambridge, are a) good enough for Cambridge but there isn't space or b) not good enough for Cambridge despite there being empty spaces?

Araminta1003 · 11/01/2026 13:26

I am getting very confused now!

The St Paul’s entrance exam for maths is as difficult as the Queen Elizabeth, Wilson’s and St Olave’s exam. The kids getting in at 11 plus or older are highly able at Maths typically (and plenty are all rounders).

Maths is not some innate ability thing either. You can have an interest and natural ability, but it is years of practice and exposure, often making it more innate and more like a language. A lot children born into Asian cultures in London in state schools who are encouraged towards great exposure to Maths are often excellent at Maths (surprise surprise). Just like some British or European parents with similarly high IQ kids but more focussed on reading, Music, Cultural capital and early exposure are then churning out kids excellent at the latter (through years and years of exposure). For society to succeed, we need to all of it and to embrace all of it in equal measures.

DogEard · 11/01/2026 13:29

"The top universities are picking from the students - not the other way around!" Feel free to self that memo to the classics tutor at T Hall

januarybikethief · 11/01/2026 13:33

DogEard · 11/01/2026 13:29

"The top universities are picking from the students - not the other way around!" Feel free to self that memo to the classics tutor at T Hall

Edited

That’s the entire point - they want some more applicants to pick from!

DogEard · 11/01/2026 13:35

Because education is a market and potential candidates are voting with their feet..

fairyring25 · 11/01/2026 13:48

@januarybikethief
I find it hard to believe that none of the 93% of candidates for computer science that don't get into Cambridge don't have the mathematical skills needed when they get into Imperial or Warwick instead.
Or that none of the 90% who don't get in for Economics at Cambridge don't have the capability to do well when they get into LSE and UCL.

FutureAgesGroan · 11/01/2026 13:51

Fascinating and illuminating discussion. My state-educated DD is hoping for a Cambridge offer in a few weeks so the insights of @cantabsupervisor and @januarybikethief are particularly welcome.

But, like a PP (whose DC is actually at Cambs IIRC), I feel a bit sad that even if my DD manages to get an offer in her humanities subject, she's likely to always lag behind privately educated peers due to insufficient cultural capital.

Perhaps Cambridge needs to send out an accessible 'cultural capital reading list' when giving out offers in January: 'We expect students preparing for this course to spend at least one hour per week from now to October reading/ viewing/doing x, y and z and to have thought about the following questions eg (using a Q posed above by @januarybikethief ) "Does the geography of Greece have any relationship to why Western philosophy first developed there, and if so, why?" '.

Could be fun, especially if it involved looking at art (maybe online), watching iplayer documentaries as well as reading books, and might just increase the cultural capital students arrive with (if only to a small degree).

januarybikethief · 11/01/2026 13:58

FutureAgesGroan · 11/01/2026 13:51

Fascinating and illuminating discussion. My state-educated DD is hoping for a Cambridge offer in a few weeks so the insights of @cantabsupervisor and @januarybikethief are particularly welcome.

But, like a PP (whose DC is actually at Cambs IIRC), I feel a bit sad that even if my DD manages to get an offer in her humanities subject, she's likely to always lag behind privately educated peers due to insufficient cultural capital.

Perhaps Cambridge needs to send out an accessible 'cultural capital reading list' when giving out offers in January: 'We expect students preparing for this course to spend at least one hour per week from now to October reading/ viewing/doing x, y and z and to have thought about the following questions eg (using a Q posed above by @januarybikethief ) "Does the geography of Greece have any relationship to why Western philosophy first developed there, and if so, why?" '.

Could be fun, especially if it involved looking at art (maybe online), watching iplayer documentaries as well as reading books, and might just increase the cultural capital students arrive with (if only to a small degree).

My college used to do this (send a reading list to offer holders of cultural capital type books from the Iliad to Freud and so on); but people complained that it was elitist and offputting to state school candidates! We really can’t win.

Wishing your DD the best of luck for offer day!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.