Is Doxbridge a thing?

[mids2019]

Oxford and Cambridge both outside top 3 in uni rankings for first time https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15114137/Oxford-Cambridge-outside-three-prestigious-university-rankings-time-London-School-Economics-first.html?ito=native_share_article-top

I think the DM was trying to make a point about social inclusion but given the Times is a reputable university of guide is this a beginning of a shift where Oxbridge aren't undisputed in their dominance?

Durham is a really good university and in 2025 is it that Oxford and Cambridge have competitors?

@Sevillian
They have an inbuilt disadvantage despite intensive language courses in their first year. It requires an astonishingly talented linguist to make up the difference, and state schoolers have been further held back by the (generally) poor quality of MFL teaching in state schools in recent years which has fed into the problem.

As you say, even the cleverest students must find it extremely difficult to catch up at university compared to students who have studied Latin and Greek from the age of 8.
So why on earth did Labour pull the opportunity to alleviate this?

I wonder what the take up was Wintersonata. Classics suffers from a useless and a posh reputation. That's a huge shame but will inevitably affect popularity.

Sevillian · Today 14:41
I wonder what the take up was Wintersonata. Classics suffers from a useless and a posh reputation. That's a huge shame but will inevitably affect popularity.

Who decides that it’s ’posh’? Do teachers tell students ‘classics aren’t for the likes of you”?
However if people are frightened of pursuing a subject because it’s posh then obviously they should study something else.

A huge number of people don't seem to know what Classics is. When people asked my own DD what she was studying - and a lot did, around where we live - she almost always had to explain what Classics was, since her response met with a puzzled look or an oh what's that.

Is Music that different though, for example? Don’t most children learn instruments privately funded by their parents from an early age, rather than by school? And whilst some state schools do teach music to GCSE and A level, many of the students are being privately funded for lessons by their parents on the side? Because to get to post Grade 8 in several instruments and music theory, requires input over and above what a typical state school provides.

And let’s not forget that even for Computer Science, a lot of children are encouraged by parents in the field as well? And there are more and more coding clubs popping up.
So where exactly do we draw the line? At a pretence that somehow the field is even? For English, those of us who have books at home and take our children to the library from an early age, that is OK? But not those who go to private school and do more Latin and Greek?

Yes I think one probably can draw a clear line when a subject is expunged from the state school
syllabus as classical languages have been.

Araminta1003 · Today 15:56
o Is Music that different though, for example? Don’t most children learn instruments privately funded by their parents from an early age, rather than by school?

My children left school years ago so I don’t know what state music provision is nowadays. However I met a pianist studying at the Royal Academy of Music who told me that very talented British musicians are passed over in favour of less talented overseas students because the latter pay much higher fees.
This seems a real shame.

Sevillian · Today 15:24
A huge number of people don't seem to know what Classics is

Have classical languages been expunged because of poor take-up, or is there poor take-up because the languages have been expunged?
Or is the lack of students simply because of the terror of being thought ‘posh’?

If then all applicants for classics at university are privately educated, do you think eventually the subject will be dropped at universities as well as state schools?

My DCs secondary school when the oldest started had compulsory Latin for everyone except those most struggling with English. By the time my youngest started she could only do Latin as an out of hours extra option.