Is Doxbridge a thing?

[mids2019]

Oxford and Cambridge both outside top 3 in uni rankings for first time https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15114137/Oxford-Cambridge-outside-three-prestigious-university-rankings-time-London-School-Economics-first.html?ito=native_share_article-top

I think the DM was trying to make a point about social inclusion but given the Times is a reputable university of guide is this a beginning of a shift where Oxbridge aren't undisputed in their dominance?

Durham is a really good university and in 2025 is it that Oxford and Cambridge have competitors?

That's very interesting.
There is no way that ABB was the highest grade of applicants to whatever Oxbridge course. This would mean that that some AAA or AAA candidates were rejected in favour of ABB. What other than contextual can this be?

This person was reportedly admitted on ABB. That won't have been the offer. it will have been that those were his grades, he missed his offer, but the college looked into his circumstances and decided that they wanted to honour the offer. This decision could be based on any number of things.

Needmoresleep you very evidently have a lot of money to throw at your DD's career but I'm not sure quite how you can claim that her cultural capital has paid dividends if she's unemployed. Especially since that's in stark contrast to my DCs' peers from Oxbridge in the same career, regardless of their school type and background. I think this may be wishful thinking on your part purely because neither of your DC are Oxford or Cambridge graduates and this still seems to rankle. As far as Westminster numbers falling goes that may well be because although the quality of Westminster student has remained the same only the genuinely meritorious now get into Oxbridge, whereas a few years ago the expensively well trained did also. The former HT was unashamed in his declarations about how he would do whatever it took to get his students into Oxbridge ('If they want students to stand on their head at interview, we'll get them to stand on their head perfectly'). An extended family member - a young Cambridge tutor in Economics at an old and large college - was told by his boss that he should be wary of the UCAS references from....certain well known schools, because they were invariably massively inflated. This was just ahead of a student entering the room for interview who the reference suggested had the Economics brain the size of a planet and yet failed to progress a single question. This wasn't that long ago - maybe ten years or so.

Ouch!

@Sevillian

Do you personally know any Westminster graduates? or this is just an "extended family member"?

I'd argue that getting into Westminster might be not much easier than to Oxbridge. No money, no tutoring will help if you aren't naturally super bright and hard working. I personally know a number of children who went there. They are all intellectual elite of this country. I'd say they all deserve places in the most selective unis, Oxbridge included. The fact that 3As private school kids get rejected in favour of ABB like above will come back and bite us all.

A few brief facts based on the experience of DS who graduated this summer:
Most students get on with people from all backgrounds.
Durham gives true contextual offers ie his flatmate was offered 2 grades below standard and met it, no A* in sight.
The Durham undergraduate bursary is paid automatically if your student loan information shows you are eligible - that's red tape cut.
From the university website "We’ve already made great strides in this area, with one in five of our new undergraduate students joining us through a scheme aimed at widening access to education."

DS studied biological sciences. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of teaching and the seniority of academic staff who lead some of it, continuity of staff, time in the labs etc when compared with some of his friends experiences elsewhere. The biological sciences department was ranked no.2 in the Guardian guide 2026, reinforcing in my mind subject is key. DS chose not to apply for Oxbridge as it would have had to be natural sciences and he felt that was way too maths heavy and biology light in year 1.

As with most universities the accommodation is a mixed bag. There are new builds such as South, John Snow and a 19th college in the pipeline. DS was in an older build but the vast majority of rooms had been converted to single ensuite and were fine.

DS had a great three years. He would recommend Durham so long as you don't want a big city, which he didn't.

@TorturedParentsDepartment Seems sad to foist baggage from 20 years ago on your DC.

Nearlylovemyusername yes I personally know Westminster pupils, both across the years of my own career and now those who were the contemporaries of my DC.

The young Cambridge tutor I referenced didn't go to Westminster himself; in fact he didn't go to school in the UK.

Not everyone is at the exact same calibre. It might not be perfect but with interviews and admissions test the Oxbridge staff can whittle down those who are less bright. Admission test score + performance at interview.

LSE arguably slightly less so, but they'll seriously scrutinise the personal statement.

This Oxbridge doesn't make dropped grade offers.

Sevilian said re George Abaraonye That won't have been the offer. it will have been that those were his grades, he missed his offer, but the college looked into his circumstances and decided that they wanted to honour the offer.
So presumably they took him despite him getting ABB.
I wonder how many other applicants got in with those grades.

Cambridge publish all their application statistics. It’s easy to see what grades are typical for accepted students, at least for the top 3 a levels taken.
I’ve attached a chart that shows the a level top 3 grades for accepted students over the last 5 years.
7683 triple a star
2274 Astar Astar A
1183 Astar A A
112 Astar Astar B

Over 5 years, only 35 students in total across all courses and colleges have been accepted with less than AAA. These are almost entirely in humanities.

For engineering, for instance, over the last 5 years there have been 881 triple a star, 76 Astar Astar A, and one Astar AA. Maths is similarly profiled.

It doesn’t look like standards are that low really. And it’s not hard to imagine a very small handful of cases where one student may have been accepted onto a course despite having missed a grade.

Thank you Talipepsmum. That is interesting.

Luckily for you, Westminster school is the institution with the highest total of Cambridge acceptances of any school globally, over the last ten years. They are regularly in the top three institutions for Cambridge acceptances each year. It really doesn’t look like Westminster school is missing out compared to other places.

Woxbridgeperialham School of Economics College London

But there are also highly selective privates as well.

I wouldn't unless you want to add Leeds and all sorts

They are selecting for something different though

Of course.

😂😂😂 A place to aim for

Some years ago there was consternation among the intelligentsia when Oxford Brookes’ History department was given a higher rating than Oxford University by whoever was the authority at the time. Radio 4 invited both establishments to comment. Oxford University declined, but Brookes sent a cheerful person who said that at Oxford they appointed people they knew and told them what to teach, whereas at Brookes they appointed people who were good and let them teach what they liked.
I often think of that when these sort of comparisons come up.

For what exactly then?

Why is this luckily for me? I don't have DC as Westminster

One teacher suggested that, at least for sixth form, subject teachers were looking for pupils they wanted to have in their classroom. Obviously bright but also likely to make a constructive contribution. My guess is that the house interview would be again looking for those willing to contribute to wider school life. So perhaps more an Ivy League approach then the grade based UK one.

On your previous post why did adults almost "commiserate" someone going to LSE?

It's not written in stone that every student with two a stars and an A is smarter and more qualified than a student with three As. LSE doesn't do interviews so all it can go off of are A levels, while Oxbridge can use interviews which they have found to be more predictive of success than A level grades. But besides that, plenty of students would rather study economics at LSE than Oxbridge (or Imperial engineering over Oxbridge) - exceptions like these are exceptions to the general rule of Oxbridge getting their pick of the litter.

Medicine is also a bit of an exception - it's a degree with highly university- independent outcomes so there's less reason to choose Oxbridge, and the commonness of top grades leads to a ceiling effect, and non-academic factors are a large part of medicine admissions but not for other subjects.

Of course the top Imperial/Warwick/whatever students are better than the average Oxbridge student, that's how statistics and distributions work. That doesn't meant the caliber are all the same. If they were, the coursework would be the same. But I haven't found any UK university's mathematics example sheets that are more rigorous than Cambridge's

Ha, read some of the earlier posts. It was a decade ago and my point is that views have changed. However, as can be seen even from posts on this thread, for some Oxbridge (not Doxbridge) is the be-all and end-all.

The fact is that lots of bright kids apply all of whom are capable for keeping pace and Oxbridge can only take so many. Other Universities, particularly LSE and Imperial, have benefitted from selecting from the same pool.

"Better" is also subjective. Some like the narrowness of LSE and Imperial where everyone shares the same interests, and living in a world city where a lot is going on. Others like the breadth of an Oxbridge college. When it comes to academic staff and research, it will be tied up with specific interests and research money.