Son not allowed to continue to second year at uni

[PocketSand]

DS2 has just completed his first year in an engineering degree. His results are all over the place from 1st in maths to 2:2 to required resits. He exceeded the A level grade requirements for MEng. He is autistic and has ADHD. He was un medicated prior to and during most of his first year due to shortages followed by referral to cardiology.

His DSA support didn't start til the spring term and one support worker provided 1 hour support when 30 hours was approved. He constantly tells the one he has seen that everything is fine and they believe him.

He always says everything is fine and doesn't ask for help. He has never been to the library and relies totally on lecture notes. He doesn't know what independent study is. I have always been his advocate but now he is expected to advocate for himself. No one at the uni knows these issues - he has not even contacted his personal tutor let alone disability services and just thinks he needs to work harder.

He found out today that he has failed his third submission of a lab report he initially submitted in February. He did not have DSA agreed support at that time so he didn’t have his own laptop. He borrowed another student’s at the time but when he had to resubmit no longer had access to his results and so he tried to cobble together a report using specimen (and maybe someone else’s results - not clear). He had previously received an email saying he couldn’t proceed unless he passed resubmission. I assume that’s where we are at now.

His feedback is harsh - shouldn’t study for a degree if not prepared to use feedback to improve his work. Trouble is he often doesn’t understand the feedback and he is unwilling to ask for clarification as he fears tutor’s anger. He says he doesn’t know who marked the work so doesn’t know who to talk to and seems generally clueless about most administrative issues.

I feel completely in the dark and don’t know where to go from here. Obviously I don’t want to just give up and accept his journey ends here as it seems very unfair but don’t know what I can do to try and enable him to fix this or if it can be fixed.

Can anyone who knows the system provide advice on next steps please?

Already done this! DS2 wanted to either ignore it or send him an email asking what he meant (the message was very vague). I explained he needed to respond and supported him to send a polite reply instead thanking him for his email, expressing that he would welcome the opportunity to discuss the report and could do this via email or Teams as preferred by the lecturer.

@IfItWereMe I don't doubt that his classmates are aware of his issues but he did plenty of Lego therapy to learn to work collaboratively and doesn't seem have significant issues. If anything he can be rather exploited by his group and end up doing more due to the fact that he can do the maths and write code where needed so he ends up doing the work for the whole group rather than it being collaborative.

Yes it is positive. I think it helps that the lecturer who has now emailed him previously requested a meeting with him to discuss why he had not achieved as expected. DS2 was going to say he just hadn't worked hard enough but I supported him to be honest with his lecturer about not receiving support til late in the year (eg one tutor sole session during the end of year exams). The lecturer was aware of this happening to a lot of other students too. Perhaps they know that DS2 would likely win any appeal he made on the grounds of not receiving support and are willingly fo find an alternative solution that he re-does that assignment or is given an opportunity to clarify feedback and resubmit. It also helps his case that his advisor did not respond to a request for clarification that I persuaded him to make.

His appeal is nailed on, from what I’ve read.

What is your son's passion and why is ilhe not following it?
Does your son want to work or is he doing engineering as a way to buy time?
From what you have said he's good at computers and coding but chooses to fuxk about on a course he has no passion for. Why are you pushing him to continue? Don't say that's what he wants to do because he hasn't shown it. He's getting older and you're watching him waste away. He could earn a lot of money in coding and programming. He'll blame you when he ain't doing nothing later and he's piss poor.

It Would be unusual to fail outright a student based on one piece

Has your son worked out how many modules he’s passed and credits he’s gained.
Is that enough to pass to the next year. Some Unis allow students to carry over a minor credit loss to the next year and take it then. Whilst doing 2nd year.
Most Unis allow resits and resubmissions in August. A pass then allows them to move on.
Some Unis only accept one resubmission on a fail though
It depends whether it’s a core subject area and the nature of the work
He needs to ask his tutor this

but first he needs to trawl through his course on the Uni website to source the academic status of the piece he failed

I'm hoping this is the case for the OP's son. My DP is doing his Medical Doctorate and passed every exam except missing by 2% on one exam, and they've made him re-do the year (appealing it, as the support for his autism wasn't put in place despite him asking). Unfortunately it's his Uni's rules, the BMA only require him to resit the exam.

I've read this with interest, as a retired Uni lecturer. Many of the comments are good ones, but you and DS(particularly him) need to be clear what outcome would be best.

In my experience, as someone said earlier, the old Polys are far better at dealing with students with problems and offer far more support than the traditional Unis. He would definitely have had regular (if not frequent) meetings with his personal tutor thoughout the year, who would have got to know him personally to some extent, and should have been able to strike up a rapport with him.

It's also not true that a degree from the newer Unis is less valuable - it has been proved not to be the case. I taught at one of the new ones and both me and my colleagues CARED about our students including those with diverse needs. We weren't research staff at all, but "teachers" and "facilitators".

He deserves better support and needs to realise that there will be many of his contemporaries who gladly accept it - he won't be on his own. It's there for HIM, to help him succeed.

But as others have said, if it's not for him, or he has realised it's the wrong degree, there are other options to consider (including moving to a different Uni).

@FalseknockI’m not pushing him, you have misunderstood. I am suggesting alternatives and pointing out how they may suit him better and telling him what the world of work of an engineer looks like and what skills are needed (it helps that my brother is a structural engineer at BNFL). It is him insisting that he wants to do engineering but at the same time struggles to articulate why.

I would make him get a job until he stops fucking about and takes it seriously. He is costing you money and he's making demands. Your house and your food that you have to pay for and he takes it. The only ultimatum is get a job and if he still argues then find him a room. He needs to take responsibility for his life and you need to stop helping him and give him ultimatums. You've done your job you've brought him up now he has to be an adult and get a job and pay his way.

And how is that going to help an ND young man who has zero life skills?

I just think the reality is - ND or not - the course doesn’t seem right for him. Of course he should access the help he is entitled to, but there has to be a certain amount of drive and desire from him that, from what you’ve said, he’s not showing. This is also the time for you to step back as a parent. University really is the time where they need to learn to advocate for themselves. Sure it might take your son longer to be able to do that fully, but you need to accept that there will be battles you can’t fight.

I messed up a few times as a student purely because I wasn’t mature enough to understand the consequences - and I’m NT. I think the reality is that school doesn’t really prepare you for accountability, agency of your own learning, management of time and resources and materials. But these are things he will need to get to grips with as he enters second year and beyond. A reality check needed I think, as well as access to whatever alternative arrangements he is entitled to.

@mathanxietyHe had a meeting with one of his DSA support staff this week. We went through a post mortem and I suggested quite strongly the things he could have done differently this year and will need to do differently next year to avoiding compounding issues. He then came back saying his tutor thought he just needed to work harder! There was no practical advice on what support he needed to work ‘smarter’. I suggested he contact SLC/DSA to change his support provider but he didn’t want to do this as he thought it would mean another delay in support being put in place. I despair!

Is he actually emotionally ready to go to university?

I would contact them myself now , they may not be able to tell you anything but they can listen to what you have to say.

Sounds like he went to uni unprepared to a degree which he isn’t capable of doing, why didn’t he have a laptop?
Can he not apply to a different uni where his skill set fits?

Your reading of the exploitative aspect sounds a bit odd, don't you think that perhaps he ended up doing the maths and the coding because he didn't contribute towards the group work in other ways? Everyone has their strengths.

My daughter's boyfriend is ND and my son is ND. How will he learn life skills if you don't push him into it. My daughter struggled and now she works until she figures it out. She lives at home and buys her own shit. She loves the independence getting her own money and making plans. Nothing is for free everything costs money. it's a mind set that you have to stick in their head it costs MONEY. You have to steer them in the right direction and not their direction. If it ain't working don't follow it. He has plenty of time to figure out what he wants to do he could be working and learning valuable life skills in a job. Then in 2 or 3 years time he might see something that he wants to do. Working gives a lot of satisfaction, independence and improved mental health. He will learn from older people who are more experienced and worldly than him. There is more benefits to him working than not.

He didn't get into year 2 it's a waste of time. My oldest is studying away at university in chiropractics a young man failed year 1 he went back to redo year 1, and then he failed again. What a waste of time.

Not every adult with a disability like asd is capable of getting/maintaining a job. In fact if you look at the statistics most of them aren’t, often because the workplace is unforgiving. Many can’t live independently.

It is a spectrum condition and just because the people you know are doing okay doesn’t mean everyone is. Hopefully OP’s DS will get there and with lots of support he will find his niche.

I do come across as all doom and gloom and I don't mean to be even though that's how I come across. It's funny you mention about the work place and those with ND finding it difficult. I have been watching a programme on the BBC about people with ND and a office had a special room for their ND employees. The world is changing and businesses are adapting and recognising that people like the ops son who is very intelligent struggle are making special provisions because they are an asset to their business. They look at things in a different way compared to an NT person and that's what makes them valuable. Very interesting programme.

Yes, thanks @Falseknock, hopefully we are moving in the right direction🤞

It seems slow going though and I see too much of ‘the person I know with asd can do this so why can’t you’ among professionals as well as laypeople.

I may well be bitter. My DS has been told he may not be eligible for adult MH services, which he desperately needs, as he had poor engagement with CAMHS as a child.

Not that he didn’t turn up to appointments, he always did.

But he wasn’t forthcoming and wasn’t able to engage with therapists easily, though that did depend on the therapist’s skill imho. It just seems like someone who literally has a diagnosis of a communication disorder, asd, is being punished for not being able to communicate effectively.

So I despair.

We were told by CAMHS that they treat others with asd, and they communicate more effectively…as if that makes it all right to ignore those who aren’t as skilled.

I am very angry right now.

Sorry for the derail OP. I really hope your son gets on ok from now on. I would fight the uni’s decision if you think he can manage the course with support and that it will benefit him. The best of luck with everything.

So he’s been told he needs to work harder

Isn't it then obvious what he needs to do
Independent study
Make use of resources in the library
Read around the modules

Im not sure any University student needs to have the concept spelt out
Its part of being at that level

As others have said this isn’t school and as such Students have to work out for themselves what working harder constitutes

I’d like to see what DS2 can achieve whilst on his meds and with appropriate support. We’ve been here before. With appropriate support (and parental support in the background to enable him to access and make the most of that support) he makes exceptional progress. Because his attainment is in line with his ability. Of course he needs skills at university that he didn’t need at 6th form but once he has explicit teaching he diligently employs it. He just doesn’t implicitly pick it up like NT do. In his first year he wanted to go it alone with little or no support or explicit teaching because he wanted not to need it. He has now learnt that didn’t work so well for him so is willing to make the choice for himself to accept it. Previously he thought teachers (and me) forced him to have support that he didn’t need, made him look bad etc. He has learned sinking is not good. It’s better to swim even if you need armbands initially.

I agree with your comment re older Unis, Russell group etc
We don’t, however, know what Uni OPs son is attending.
It could just as well be an old Poly.