Son not allowed to continue to second year at uni

[PocketSand]

DS2 has just completed his first year in an engineering degree. His results are all over the place from 1st in maths to 2:2 to required resits. He exceeded the A level grade requirements for MEng. He is autistic and has ADHD. He was un medicated prior to and during most of his first year due to shortages followed by referral to cardiology.

His DSA support didn't start til the spring term and one support worker provided 1 hour support when 30 hours was approved. He constantly tells the one he has seen that everything is fine and they believe him.

He always says everything is fine and doesn't ask for help. He has never been to the library and relies totally on lecture notes. He doesn't know what independent study is. I have always been his advocate but now he is expected to advocate for himself. No one at the uni knows these issues - he has not even contacted his personal tutor let alone disability services and just thinks he needs to work harder.

He found out today that he has failed his third submission of a lab report he initially submitted in February. He did not have DSA agreed support at that time so he didn’t have his own laptop. He borrowed another student’s at the time but when he had to resubmit no longer had access to his results and so he tried to cobble together a report using specimen (and maybe someone else’s results - not clear). He had previously received an email saying he couldn’t proceed unless he passed resubmission. I assume that’s where we are at now.

His feedback is harsh - shouldn’t study for a degree if not prepared to use feedback to improve his work. Trouble is he often doesn’t understand the feedback and he is unwilling to ask for clarification as he fears tutor’s anger. He says he doesn’t know who marked the work so doesn’t know who to talk to and seems generally clueless about most administrative issues.

I feel completely in the dark and don’t know where to go from here. Obviously I don’t want to just give up and accept his journey ends here as it seems very unfair but don’t know what I can do to try and enable him to fix this or if it can be fixed.

Can anyone who knows the system provide advice on next steps please?

My DP is studying for his MD, I've been dating him just over a year. About 6 months into knowing him I found out he was struggling. He has autism, but had no support in place - he had tried, but found the forms difficult and info wasn't communicated between staff, they had him on a list for support but no-one had contacted him. After some problems with results, and critical words from staff not knowing his neurodivergence and difficulties, I contacted the Disability Support Team at his uni and I am now signed as his support. He now has a support plan, and I attend meetings to help him to explain his difficulties. They keep me informed. It's made a big difference to him, and his keyworker can intervene with his faculty. He also appealed results as he didn't have the support in place, and it was granted.

I don't think Lotus will be in Norfolk by the time he graduates. That plant is at risk right now and the Chinese owners want to move the plant to either China or the US. Might that persuade him to move to Maths?

I think it is an ND trait to dismiss our talents as being too easy to study. I didn't do my best subject at university - I went quite a long way down the list, dismissing the three subjects I found easiest. I could have made my life so much easier and, separately, I was very poorly with mental ill health as well. I scraped through with a 2:2. But there was no support at all in those days - absolutely nothing - and the tutors just took you at face value because they knew there was nothing else. Plus I was the consumer. Now there is support and parents are involved, so I can imagine they are naturally a lot less tolerant of those who don't take the help. They need to be reminded that it is their duty to do otherwise.

Really, you can't now make things any worse, so I say get stuck in. In many ways parents are now the consumers. UEA is quite an odd university, in that they have a much higher opinion of themselves than the ratings suggest on the back of a very small clutch of subjects (creative writing and agriculture), but they do know who their end consumer is. They can't just say "well, we are happy to work with students with special needs, as long as they behave themselves and do all the right things", so just remind them of that fact. Hopefully your son will finally learn from this too. Push has come to shove.

@HAB75 they pulled their apprentice intake for this year at the last minute, I think the government have bailed them out recently. That's why, upthread, I told the op to advise her son not to put all his eggs in one basket.

I think Elleherd's post and her son's contributions to it are a must read for anyone with an ASD and/or ADHD child heading off to uni, especially in the MEng departments. I have one myself and there are a lot of hard truths and reality checks in there.

I also agree, especially with this bit -

I suspect your Ds has started without enough basic general skills to understand how his course works and utilize what uni offers, and you've assumed DSA will look after him rather more than they will if he isn't seeking them out.
He sounds just not yet be uni ready even with support from DSA, no matter how academically able in some areas he is. It's not a disaster not to be. There's time.

I think Uni is a shock even for most NT students so I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have had a certain level of support up to 18 and then that to just vanish when you go to Uni. I do think that schools/6th forms need to be realistic with ND students and their parents about the Uni experience and how hard it might be for them. With the huge cuts to HE and resulting redundancies I would expect student support to be even more limited in the future.

Op I don't understand how your DS has studied for A levels and not understood that independent study is part of the process, is it a Maths issue because my DD doing Humanity subjects had to do a coursework project for English, including research citations etc plus a groupwork project involving a power point presentation?

I do wonder if this situation is more common amongst the Maths/Engineering/CS degree contingent - most parents with ND children agree that whilst their child is brilliant academically, socially and emotionally they are a couple of years behind their peers. But a lot of the mentioned degrees don't let you take a gap year so what choice do they have but to go when 18?
Perhaps Unis should allow students to defer for a couple of years but take an entrance exam similar to an A level to show that they've retained their Maths knowledge.

My Son failed his first year it Uni by a few points due to freshers and generally floating around, he also failed the resit. All is not lost he couldn't move forward with his class but he did redo the semester he failed, he passed it. They do give the option to do the failed semester or redo the whole year which they must pass. My son has just passed his 2nd year and will do his final year starting in September. University is not cheap and the student loans do have to be paid back. If he really wants to go then he needs to understand that if he does repeat a semester or the whole year and fails then that's it, its over. You dont have much time so think carefully together about what he really wants to do

I think that it wouldn’t not be out of place to write to his tutor explaining these issues in a similar way that you have written here saying you would like to meet with the tutor to plan a way forward. The tutor obviously is not aware of the gravity of the situation and would want to be informed.

Hi don’t know if this helps. I’m 29 have been diagnosed with autism and adhd. I started a psychology degree because I finally felt ready to do university, even though I feel ten years behind due to my struggles. I failed my first year (second module) for the exact reason / my dsa pc arrived two weeks late I didn’t have the correct software for research report study. I was too overwhelmed and ashamed to ask for help so don’t be hard on him because it is a struggle, I failed two months ago only today I called uni and asked if I could re do the last two assignments I didn’t do. They weren’t much help , but - maybe he should try another course? Im considering doing the same . Or, maybe help him word an email to tutor asking for help extensions etc, I struggled massively with this and this is the reason I failed . Also praises to him for getting so far in the first place well done it’s hard 💕💕xxx

So he lives at home and you still didn’t know the extent of his difficulties. I work in FE with SEN students and honestly am wondering if this is the right path for him. Maybe he would be better off as an apprentice in an engineering company. I know of students that were supported this way to get their degrees and have flourished. Whatever he decides, he has to be open and honest about his difficulties so that he can get the help he needs.

You need to state all of this to the dean or head of faculty. Why did he not have his own lap top? Support sounds v muddled. Maybe he can stay or better transfer to a more supportive uni

@Lollylucyclark101 - It should cover him until he’s 25?

EHCP's do not transfer to Uni.

EHCPs can continue until 25, or 26 in some circumstances, but not if the young person begins higher education. Not all EHCPs continue until 25.

Apprenticeships are not easier than uni , you have to juggle study and work and not all employers are supportive, I have to keep reminding managers that it is a legal requirement to allow them their 20% of the job learning. One apprentice left after a few months and another 2 are really struggling, they have a decent manager but he is not able to give as much support as they need.

They continue to 25 OR the child or young person ceases education OR they leave secondary education for tertiary.

It only continues to the 26th birthday if the child is still in school level education. University level, and it automatically ceases. Disabled CYP often take a lot longer to complete their school age studies for a range of reasons, and many will never be ready for tertiary education (university level) so may attend eg National Star College for life skills instead, in which case absolutely the EHCP is needed, but if someone goes on to a university or college to study at tertiary level, that means the EHCP ends.

A friend had to hold her LA at bay while she awaited her YP's A level results, as they told her they would cease the EHCP as soon as she sat the exams as the aim was university. That's not lawful - had she not passed, she would have needed an EHCP to support retakes. Thankfully she passed really well (just gradated with an excellent degree from a redbrick, in fact) but it's not lawful to just cease an EHCP until the path ahead is certain, or the YP has left education or turns 26.

Yes. This is a complete misapprehension. There will may be less not more understanding and awareness of ASD on an apprenticeship. Managers are not required to engage with learning disabilities in the way school and uni staff are.

I had a very similar situation with my son, same story unfortunately! Mine did another year and decided it wasnt for him! He's now on an apprenticeship and loving it. Uni doesn't suit everyone and with those like ours who need to ask for help and cant/won't it's really tough. It's a sit down and really discuss what he wants out of this.

Hastily, so you don't worry too much - DSA kicks in when an EHCP ends if a YP goes on to tertiary education. But it depends I think on how involved the parent can be. Sadly the successful cases seem to either be collegiate universities, where the home base college can be in loco parentis, or where the YP stays at home so still has the parent offering a lot of support - if the needs are EHCP level, I mean. A lot of SEN kids thrive at university short of that level.

OP I agree with a previous poster: appeal, with all background, but time is of the essence.

Also not sure how people think an exceptionally bright autist would be best off in an apprenticeship. Those tend to demand a lot more basic life skills than the 'brain in a jar' approach high level universities can, sometimes and optimally, adopt to exceptionally able but functionally struggling autistic young people. Best to play to strengths, I feel. But the university do need to know the needs are there, to be able to offer support.

FYI, the first year of engineering maths typically includes some repetition of the A level syllabus (to get everyone to the same level, because students will likely have followed different syllabi).

So it (engineering maths) sn't esp hard -- a pure maths degree would require more work and there will be times when a student struggles to get their head around some of it and does need to be able to ask for help

(I have a 1st class MEng and got 100% in the maths final- not a genius, but I did work hard)

Iim sorry you're going through this. I can empathise. I had similar issues with my son who wouldn't ask for support. He suffered with severe anxiety and depression and like you I have always been his advocate. You need to try and speak to student support on his behalf. He'll need to give you permission. My son had to re do his second year not in attendance at uni but managed to achieve good results without any support from the uni. He's now going back for his final year after much persuasion. I hope it works out for your son.

And as some other posters have said, appeal with all the information you've provided here. They are extenuating circumstances and hopefully will lead to him getting the support he needs.

Has the university got an inclusivity team you can contact? I realise they may not speak to you without his permission. It’s so hard I know - my son is AuADHD too and going to Uni in September and I just don’t know how he’s going to cope with the study as well as independent living. If you’re on FB there is a group which is parents of neurodiverse uni students who may include someone who can help

I have a daughter with autism at University. I'm lucky in that she engages with disability services and has used the support on offer from the DSA. That said she has had to follow it up and request it at every stage. I think you have done the best thing you can do which is request to deal with disability services on your son's behalf. My daughter badly failed a presentation that could mean she doesn't pass her degree - final year - when she has been getting top grades throughout. Because of specific circumstances she applied for backward looking 'extenuating circumstances'. This was granted which means the resit is classed as a first attempt. I am a bit unclear on the timing of your sons lack of medication and the submission of the reports but maybe this is something to look into, as you will have third party backup to show he was off his meds? Unfortunately though you will still need his involvement to do this until you can be approved to advocate on his behalf.

I also wanted to say that some of the comments on here are pretty ableist. If society doesn't want to be paying disability benefits for autistic adults then they need to accept their differences and find ways to assist young autistic adults to qualify and move into the workplace. They shouldn't have to look identical to neurotypical people!!

I haven’t read all the posts, but I think
you/he messed up by not making the university aware of the extent of his issues. If he’s telling the support worker/university he’s fine and doesn’t need help, they’re not going to know he needs help.

Have NC for this as is potentially outing @PocketSand
I have ADHD, a PhD + many other qualifications and I am a Lecturer at a Russell Group Uni.

One of our DCs has a diagnosis of Autism and I am sure that DH is Autistic. I definitely recognise the frustration of a DC who doesn’t bathe, ours grew out of it in their mid teens but for a while it was bad.

I’m going to start from the end.
What career or line of work does your son plan to apply for when he has finished his course?
Many careers in engineering require team work, the ability to work on one’s own initiative, an element of creative thinking and later to manage teams. Your son does not seem to have those skills and his EHCP (which has finished have I got that right?) will be irrelevant by the time he is qualified and seeking employment.

He may have said that he wanted to be an Engineer, did your son undertake work experience for an engineering firm? Even just for a month?
Even in Norfolk there must be a good dealership with mechanics? He will have to start at the beginning but he will wherever he goes after University.

As others have said, University is about independence.
Your son is failing because he is unable to attend the course independently and has said that he does not need support.

To answer your question about Lecturers the answer is stressed. Even though fees increase staffing is being cut and tutor groups are getting bigger all for no greater pay or extra hours to cover the additional workload. This is not my first career so I do have experience in other industries and I know how the stress compares.

At the beginning of the Academic Year his tutors will have received thousands of emails about students who need support, or an EpiPen, or any number of other SEND or physical assistance. I always make notes about these otherwise I know my disorganisation will make me miss things if I don’t take notes immediately. Some of my colleagues have no SEND or real experience of it. They sailed through education and will be in post forever. They don’t get it. I’m sorry.

It sounds as though the University have tried to do what they can to support your son.

My advice would be this:
• Your son takes a year out and does work experience at an Engineering firm. This will give you both some breathing space and give your son real world experience. It will give you the time to ensure that he has his own laptop and other essential equipment.
My suspicion is that DS will decide that he does not enjoy engineering after this and chooses Maths. Then he can apply to whichever Oxbridge Uni he prefers, all students receive excellent support there.

Good luck to all of you and all the best with your divorce.

He may not be ready, encourage him to take a year doing something else then reevaluate.
My kids are ND, we were open and honest throughout the interview process and before they started. They both had great support through DSA but it does rely on the student to be proactive in seeking support. University isn't school. University also isn't for everybody regardless of their academic ability.

They won’t speak to the OP if son over 18 unless they have a consent to share in place. I would sort this out first then speak to Disability Team and Course Team (providing of course your son wants this and wishes to continue with his study). The SU can also help your son to put a case forward.