Doing a Physics degree if cannot get into Engineering

[blueshoes]

Is it a viable option for ds to study Physics at university, rather than Engineering, if Ds wants to be an engineer when he graduates?

Ds is waiting for his A level results and has to go into clearing in August as he wishes to swap from his UCAS firm choice of Economics into an Engineering course. Being a serial mind changer, it is a matter of chance whether a place comes up in clearing for him to get into an Engineering course of his choice (General, Mechanical or Aeronautical) at a university of his choice.

In the spirit of hedging his bets, it looks slightly easier to get into Physics courses. He might be able to get a Physics course in clearing at a more competitive university.

Is is wise for him to do Physics if he wants to be an engineer is in terms of getting a job and desirability to big employers? Dh and I have no background in engineering or sciences and have no idea.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, ds might change his mind again and decide to go into finance on graduation. How would a Physics (as opposed to Engineering) degree be regarded by Finance employers?

All tips and thoughts gratefully received, as they were on my previous thread🙏

I was trying to get ds interested in civil as seems generally easier to get into as an engineering course but unfortunately he is not interested.

Such a massive range of roles called ‘engineer’ in many different fields - some of your posts sound like they’re all the same. Your negativity may be entirely justified for the area you know about, but it’s very far from the whole truth.

@Justaminuteplease Got a job with a 2:2? Virtually immediate screening out now. A MEng degree holder won’t be.m with an 2:1. Oil industry is not quite the same as engineering consultancy roles - as an example.

My DH is CEng, FICE, FIStructE, FCIHT. Never seemed bored but he started his own consultancy. He didn’t spend long working for others! The best people are more than capable of having great jobs and careers. Going abroad wasn’t his goal but there’s work and business here if you have the nous and ability to do it.

You can absolutely “pivot” (new overused word) to finance and loads do - they are numerate grads after all. However DH would have found finance or accountancy hugely boring and he managed to earn very well. He actually ran the consultancy - much more exciting than accountancy! It absolutely is a great career for those who understand how to make money! Smaller consultancies still offer varied jobs and problem solvers very welcome and hopefully ones who understand business too.

in broad terms: my DD knew from a small child that she wanted to ‘build things’. The area which caught her imagination was electronics; she’s working in a consultancy on a range of projects designing devices for all sorts of applications, including the software of course. It requires ingenuity and problem solving skills as well as a strong base of academic knowledge.

Good for your hubby. And what about for all the other hundreds of thousands of engineering professional who won't be starting their own consultancies? Are you saying that only exceptional engineers should expect decent career prospects? Or to use your word, the 'best people'? That's a very high bar. I mention the two examples of my sisters because finance and accounting is full of normal, run of the mill, unexeptional people who earn very well and have great careers, so..

Is OPs son only going to be well paid of have interesting work if he starts his own consultancy?

Separately, I'm not sure why everyone is offended at the notion that engineering as a job just isn't that great. Of all the engineers I've worked with, most pivoted out of engineering within 5 years of starting work.

Yes, I see. Glad your dd knew what she wanted to do from a young age and is now doing it. Sounds like she is great at her job.

I wonder how many good engineers are like this. There must be a middle ground of competent engineers who find their jobs interesting more often than not but don't live and breath it. Most young people don't know what they want to do.

Thinking about myself I fell into my profession thinking I would not practice but will keep my options open. Now I make a good living but still don't live and breathe it. Those that do work in a different line or work. I do my thing in a more generalist way.

Is there any equivalent in engineering? Ds is not going to shoot out the lights as an engineer but I think he will bring other qualities (like powerpoints!)

I only know oil and gas. From my experience, disenfranchised engineers, of which there are many, don't leave oil and gas and then try engineering in other sectors. They leave the profession entirely.

Separately, I'm not sure why everyone is offended at the notion that engineering as a job just isn't that great. Of all the engineers I've worked with, most pivoted out of engineering within 5 years of starting work.

not remotely ‘offended’; I’m sure some jobs in engineering aren’t that great. But - mindful that threads are read by people other than their OP - it’d be a shame to give the impression that they’re all dull and crap, by overgeneralisation of what you’ve encountered.

@ErrolTheDragon sure. Still, I also wouldn't want OP to have the impression that all engineering jobs are shiny and great, and afford creative research and development 'ingeniously' by overgeneralising other people's experiences either.

As an ex chemical engineer myself I have first hand experience of what engineering in Oil and Gas is like. My dad worked as a mechanical engineer in Oil and Gas. My husband has a degree in mechanical engineering. My sister has a a chemical engineering degree and is now an accountant. Lots of engineers here, none of them working the profession now.

I think people need to think long and hard about which degree to do now because the cost of degrees are so high and the repayment packages are so bad. That, combined with the spiralling cost of housing and general cost of living means that, if you are intelligent enough to choose to do anything, engineering wouldn't be the thing I'd advise them to choose. There are much better paid jobs.

I think in science and engineering fields there’s a middle ground for people who are competent but don’t ‘live and breathe’ it in management roles of various types - project and product managers and up the organisation from there. Companies may have a ‘management/commercial’ ladder and a parallel ‘scientific/technical/expert’ one. The former may do very well in career terms, but benefit their teams and companies by having a good level of technical understanding.

@Justaminuteplease Yes. Only the best get the best money in any profession. Being a foot soldier at anything doesn’t pay wonderfully in any profession.

Taking a risk, (self employed - no work equals no money) and being someone with engineering ability that comes naturally, and has business acumen, can make decent money. I’d tell anyone to aim for getting in with a smaller company and drive it forward. You have to network, pitch, get work, deliver designs time and on budget. Plus manage teams, workload and make financial decisions etc. We know others who did similar and never ever would have sat in a portacabin designing hs2 on the hoof. Well not for very long anyway. Some engineers do have more about them than being a cog in a wheel and those cogs aren’t getting £250,000 salaries in London in finance any time soon.

OP,

Please don’t use one posters opinions of engineering as a career option as the foundation for your views, when those opinions are based entirely on the oil and gas sector which is incredibly challenged and the moment and has always been well recognised as the most volatile.

The future employment of anyone linked with the sector was a major feature of a UK Gov consultation recently, because of its specific challenges. That’s not representative of engineering careers as a whole (or careers that use an engineering degree).

All that said, it’s very different to economics, and is maths heavy. Get those textbooks and he can have a play with them.

@ThisTicklishFatball
Do you have any direct experience of this?Just wondered how long this training would be, assuming you are a graduate.

@ScaryM0nster thanks for the balancing view. Ds has got the OCR F Maths Mech textbook. We'll see if that makes him change his mind again 😬

I figure whatever ds wants to do, engineering as a degree gives him great scientific, mathematical and problem-solving skills. All highly transferable. It is also a hard course so if he survives, he'd hopefully acquire some work ethic and organisation. He does not mind the extra year for an MEng (though I quite like a three year course so I can retire earlier!). At the back of my mind, if war comes to Europe, I'd like ds to be an engineer.

@ErrolTheDragon thanks for explaining the parallel ‘management/commercial’ ladder. That might suit ds better. Then again, he could really get into his course.

@TizerorFizz I am not sure how entrepreneurial ds is. It seems to have served your dh well. I am from a profession that is notoriously risk averse. It is a certain mindset. Rather than start his own company, I guess ds could join a consultancy or like you say, work for a smaller company which gives him more exposure and independence to grow the business.

@blueshoes It’s inevitable that people have experience of larger organisations. However the varied roles (not necessarily running your own company) come from doing all the things I mentioned well. My DH never lived for engineering. He liked variety and making decisions and not being that cog that takes virtually no decisions. He liked getting work and invoicing! As you start work you do work out who you are and look for options that allow you to flourish. And make money!!

Hi Op. I commented on your first thread.
Given your DS has ADHD, can I ask you to. Check out the thread ‘my son not allowed to continue to 2nd year’. If your DS does not require disability support then it may not be relevant but it highlights the challenges of an engineering degree where perhaps it may not be best choice for a particular student,
No degree is easy, but engineering (particularly Aero and Mech) is very difficult,, academic ability in maths/physics is the absolute minimum, and he will need to be focussed and a self starter to really succeed.
To be honest, it seems your DS is still wavering between 3 different courses, and he (not you) will need to commit to one for the next 3-4 years. He can’t keep hedging his bets and trying to cover all bases, it is time to decide.
Or take a gap year.

Late to the thread.

3 of your first 4 were DS's choices. He's been set on Aero for some time and Southampton is his first choice. I think it's quite desirable so wouldn't expect it to be in clearing at all.

A friend's DS had an offer for Mech at Sheffield a couple of years ago, missed the grades, and was offered Materials. He's not enjoyed it as much as expected and has changed to the BEng. From memory, offer was Astar,A,A and he got Astar,B,B.

Another friend's DD is holding an offer for Civil at Leeds. They will have done the research so that could be a good option.

Fingers crossed for you.

Given your DS has ADHD, can I ask you to. Check out the thread ‘my son not allowed to continue to 2nd year’. If your DS does not require disability support then it may not be relevant but it highlights the challenges of an engineering degree where perhaps it may not be best choice for a particular student,
No degree is easy, but engineering (particularly Aero and Mech) is very difficult,, academic ability in maths/physics is the absolute minimum, and he will need to be focussed and a self starter to really succeed.
To be honest, it seems your DS is still wavering between 3 different courses, and he (not you) will need to commit to one for the next 3-4 years. He can’t keep hedging his bets and trying to cover all bases, it is time to decide.
Or take a gap year.

I completely agree with this, that other thread sprang to my mind when reading this thread, even down to the using past papers for revision although presumably the Economics A level would mean that the OP's DC has more essay writing experience. But the whole choosing engineering when strengths may lie elsewhere sounds very similar.

Regarding engineering, my DH did civils and has worked his way up in a multinational company and is now involved in the commercial side. It seems to involve a lot of legal stuff and contract law and in truth he doesn't really enjoy it much and looks back with fondness on his years of working for a contractor and spending all his days out on site. But his salary is very good because he saves his company a lot of money in legal challenges!

Hi all, please know I have been reading all your recent posts. Ds and I have also read the ADHD thread and suitably chastened. Ds and I have been busy researching and preparing for Results Day this morning so apologies if I have updated the thread.

Ds has got his A level results. Bad news is he got lower than he would have liked Maths A Physics A Econs B but still decent.

He got verbal offers from Manchester MEng, Birmingham BEng, Nottingham MEng for Civil. He also got verbal offers from Loughborough BEng, QMUL MEng for Aerospace/Aeronautical and from Southampton BEng for Aerospace Electronic. He also got a verbal offer from Sheffield BEng for Mechatronic and Robotic.

Ds is mostly considering beteen Manchester MEng Civil v. Loughborough BEng Aeronautical.

I really value all your opinions so pls either continue to respond here or on my new SOS thread by 4 pm before his Manchester offer expires.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education/5391665-help-ds-decide-by-4-pm-today-ucas-clearing-manchester-civil-engineering-v-loughborough-aeronautical-engineering

DS said Loughborough. He's doing aeronautical so did the research earlier in the year.

Thanks @Sewingmachine1 is your DS at Loughborough and if so, what does he think of the course?

What does he generally think of Aeronautical as a course v Civil? Appreciate Civil may not even have been on his radar but just asking.

He's going to Southampton for aero but Loughborough just missed his short list.

I don't know enough about civil to comment, sorry.

@Sewingmachine1 well done to your ds for getting a place in Southampton for Aero. It is a popular course. The pure Aero course did not come up in Clearing for Southampton, only Aerospace Electronic which according to ds, who looked at the modules, is very electrical.

Thank you, we're delighted.

I hope your DS makes a decision he's happy with.