Doing a Physics degree if cannot get into Engineering

[blueshoes]

Is it a viable option for ds to study Physics at university, rather than Engineering, if Ds wants to be an engineer when he graduates?

Ds is waiting for his A level results and has to go into clearing in August as he wishes to swap from his UCAS firm choice of Economics into an Engineering course. Being a serial mind changer, it is a matter of chance whether a place comes up in clearing for him to get into an Engineering course of his choice (General, Mechanical or Aeronautical) at a university of his choice.

In the spirit of hedging his bets, it looks slightly easier to get into Physics courses. He might be able to get a Physics course in clearing at a more competitive university.

Is is wise for him to do Physics if he wants to be an engineer is in terms of getting a job and desirability to big employers? Dh and I have no background in engineering or sciences and have no idea.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, ds might change his mind again and decide to go into finance on graduation. How would a Physics (as opposed to Engineering) degree be regarded by Finance employers?

All tips and thoughts gratefully received, as they were on my previous thread🙏

Hi,

My son is at Southampton doing Aeronautical Engineering MSc. He didn't have further maths at A'level & has found it ok so far. The Maths in the first year is self taught but he has managed & passed the first year.

I think there have been quite a few drop outs but he doesn't know why.

Please feel free to ask any questions

Everything the post above says.

(As a chartered engineer of a different Institute, a previous scholar of the same, and having done a lot of engineering grad recruitment).

For the flavours of engineering listed, it’s an IMechE accredited course that he needs to look for. Straight mechanical, aero, auto all tend to have the same core modules and easy to change between after first year.
Civil/Structural, Electrical/Electronic, Chemical (ie the ones that had different institutes) are more different and further from the direction it sounds like he’s interested in.

For clearing, dont discount BEng courses at accredited universities. For a large number of them decision point on BEng vs MEng is at the end of second year. Worth getting into the details of the course info or talking to the department to understand the options in each case.

He’ll be ok without further maths, but will need to knuckle down and study hard on the maths modules. They’re all taught in a way that covers what F Maths covers, but at a pace that reflects half the class having done it before on the courses where that’s likely.

Theres a steady demand for engineers in the UK, ignore the previous poster who thought their wasn’t. Yes, the profession doesn’t get the respect it does in much of Europe but plenty of demand. Our Institutions just don’t do nearly as much to protect the title as some other countries do.

No problem with going into finance with a good engineering degreee. Tricky to get engineering jobs with a physics degree, not impossible but very narrow options.

Dont do engineering unless committed to the course. You’ll have more taught hours than anyone else you know.

@SeaDragon17 thank you for your unique perspective. Ds will be careful to check for accreditation as he was looking at course with a 'management' angle.

I am worried whether ds is up for hard work and whether he has honed his study technique sufficiently. He is reasonably bright but recently diagnosed with ADHD. He crammed for his A levels by doing lots of past papers but will that work during a degree, especially one as demanding as engineering? He likes studying Physics and Maths (more than Economics) but I have not seen him show an interest in 'making' anything. Any thoughts on this sort of student?

How would ds go out and get experience during a year out? Ideally, it will be engineering-related experience but he has not got anything so far. He applied to etrust (https://www.etrust.org.uk/programmes-platinum-placements) and Mott MacDonald but has not heard back. I fear he may have missed the boat for 2025/6.

Having a poke through clearing places currently with engineering courses under the mech umbrella, all of the following are solid choices.

Dont be a snob about the Scottish entry criteria. They work to Scottish school leavers and the extra year doesn’t make difference in overall life. Scotland is also a great place if undecided as much easier to swap between courses with the way the unis run.

Aberdeen
Birmingham
Brunel
Durham
Glasgow
(Herts - if auto / motorsport is his thing)
Leeds
Loughborough
Brooks
Queens
Southampton
Strathclyde

Engineering degree apprenticeships are worth a look.

As are foundation years if undecided.

@ScaryM0nster so glad to get your thoughts too. So many useful things.

Great to know to look out for the IMechE accredited course.

Also, fantastic to learn that he can potentially swap between straight mechanical, aero and auto. That is the direction he wants to go and is currently leaning in favour of aero. Some courses have come up in clearing in mech but not aero. Will make him investigate harder whether it is possible to swap from mech to aero in the second year, especially if people drop out after the first year (hope ds does not drop out!).

Also, BEng will give him more choices in clearing. So great tip there.

Re: FM, is it worth him getting the textbooks to start learning between now and September?

Just to be clear, it’s courses that are accredited, not universities. Also agree that engineering on its own is a better bet. Many management jobs take dc with no management degree but numerate grads are very trainable. I also agree with a broad scope degree. Many offer deeper study in y4 anyway. Yes, there are jobs but obviously dc have to be employable with some soft skills!

@ScaryM0nster thanks for the list of engine (do people use the nickname 'engine'? I am making it up) courses in clearing.

What are your thoughts on Nottingham, Queen Mary and Kings (General)? Weirdly, Kings has rather few engineering courses.

@kateandsam well done on your son getting into Aeronautics at Southampton, managing without FM and passing his first year. Gives me hope for ds.

Ds wants to do Aeronautics & Astronomics but that course is not in clearing, though Mechanical & Aerospace is. Does your ds know whether students can generally easily swap between the aero, astro, mech and auto at Southampton. I assume if there are drop outs it is a possibility.

Does he have any thoughts generally about studying at Southampton? What does he like or dislike? Does he find the workload heavy?

Nottingham is solid.

Kings I’ve not come across for engineering, check carefully on accreditation there.

QMUL - not sure.

That list was solely based on what came up when I searched the ucas clearing pages for mech eng stuff and are departments I know are decent.

Get Kryszig Engineering Maths textbook. Second hand or from a library. Or the other one (there are two, cant for the life of me remember the author of the other engineering maths textbook that’s commonly used). Apart from anything else, it’s a good test on can you stand the course.

On accreditation. You’ll generally find BEng courses might not be, but if the MEng is and the university confirm can swap if getting suitable grades after first or second year that’s fine as the ultimate degree will be accredited.

Go read the course description for Southampton aero.

It points out the first two years are the same.

@ScaryM0nster on Engineering Maths textbooks, I found these:

Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Erwin Kreyszig 8th edition (Paperback, 1999): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235905286367

Engineering Mathematics by Dexter J. Booth and K. A. Stroud, 7th edition (2013, Paperback): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226896110532

Should ds look at the Engineering Maths or Advanced Engineering Maths? Don't want to scare him off with Advanced if that is not the one.

Yes, I'm sure he's said the same. I think he finds the work quite intense, (well some of it) but not all of it. I think he probably has 12-15 contact hours per week.

He said the maths in the first year was more of a revision of A'level which he hasn't had any problems with.

He really enjoyed his first year, got involved with some societies, made lots of friends & is having a great time.

@kateandsam glad to hear your ds is getting on well with his course and has settled in.

BEng almost certainly will be accredited unless it’s a brand new course or something very left field and doesn’t have a natural engineering home. BEng leads to Incorporated Engineer but still has to be accredited. Engimeering Council lists their approved courses

Both of those are standard maths textbooks for engineering courses and used at the same level.

Engineering is a mixture of contact time and labs. DH back in the day said it was like a 9-5 job. However if dc enjoys it, it’s no hardship.

My DS is a physicist who is an engineer. It is possible.

He could look at the mechanics module from Further Maths A level. Probably more accessible than the degree level textbooks. The OCR B syllabus major option will have the most content.

I relied heavily on the Stroud maths textbook to get me through an engineering masters degree.

Engineering is a mixture of contact time and labs. DH back in the day said it was like a 9-5 job. However if dc enjoys it, it’s no hardship.

Most STEM degrees were like that back in the day - DH and I were both 9-5 lectures and labs, with Wednesday afternoons off. It isn't like that any more (my degree is now 12 hrs of lectures and labs per week, less in Yr 3), but STEM courses will generally have more contact hours than other degrees.

@SabrinaThwaite At a decent university students would still be doing labs in addition to lectures. It’s still best approached as taking 35-40 hours a week. It’s not doable at 10 or 15.

@LizaRadleywasonthespectrum How did he get over the qualifying course requirement? Is he a chartered engineer or engineer by job name only?

Nope. Included labs in that 12 hours a week. Russell Group.

My DS did Chem Eng - not dissimilar contact time either. Also Russell Group. I was surprised that ‘self study’ makes up the largest proportion of the hours on each course unit.

Too many students for labs then. Probably why some grads are not great.

Partly. When you’ve got 150 students rather than 30 you don’t have the lab space.

But we were on 9-1 lectures and 2-5 labs - my old course certainly doesn’t give you 20 hrs of lectures a week now, and appears to have been sliced into 2 or 3 separate degrees now.