Doing a Physics degree if cannot get into Engineering

[blueshoes]

Is it a viable option for ds to study Physics at university, rather than Engineering, if Ds wants to be an engineer when he graduates?

Ds is waiting for his A level results and has to go into clearing in August as he wishes to swap from his UCAS firm choice of Economics into an Engineering course. Being a serial mind changer, it is a matter of chance whether a place comes up in clearing for him to get into an Engineering course of his choice (General, Mechanical or Aeronautical) at a university of his choice.

In the spirit of hedging his bets, it looks slightly easier to get into Physics courses. He might be able to get a Physics course in clearing at a more competitive university.

Is is wise for him to do Physics if he wants to be an engineer is in terms of getting a job and desirability to big employers? Dh and I have no background in engineering or sciences and have no idea.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, ds might change his mind again and decide to go into finance on graduation. How would a Physics (as opposed to Engineering) degree be regarded by Finance employers?

All tips and thoughts gratefully received, as they were on my previous thread🙏

@Chateaudiaries he is looking at Southampton, thanks. Aeronautics and Astronautics /Spacecraft Engineering is not in Clearing but Aerospace Electronic Engineering is. I personally prefer the latter (drone, radar, signals, navigation) but it seems quite electronic/electrical which ds may baulk at.

Thanks for the insight about the UK and EU university and employers market for engineers @FastForward2 and @Huggersunite .

Do you know how easily a UK engineer can work in the EU post-Brexit? I can imagine the defence industry will grow in both UK and EU in the coming years.

I’d take the year out and reapply with certainty of results and subject.
I’m a physics graduate who did a relevant MSc to move into engineering. Professional development pathways to CEng are so much more straightforward and supported for BEng graduates than BSc graduates. Despite a lot of professional study, I have always been considered a slightly “second class” engineer.

I’m a chartered civil engineer - generally employers look for graduates with an engineering degree particularly as most are keen to support progression to chartership. One thing it might be worth investigating- I studied at Edinburgh Uni (albeit a fair time ago now!) and although I applied for civils in yr1 we have to pick 3 of the 4 engineering disciplines (civil, mechanical, chemical and electrical) and then had the option to switch courses at the end depending on our preference after actually having studied them all. So I wonder if you could apply for say civils but with the intention of transferring over.

Once he has a place at a university it is far easier to change course 1 year in. It is usually possible to take a few subjects from the degree you’re interested in so there is little or no impact to total credits when you swap over (many subjects cross over several courses in the first year).

Definitely needs to do an engineering degree if he thinks he may want to be a professional engineer. The degree should be accredited by one or more of the engineering institutions. If he doesn't like electrical and electronics he needs to look very carefully at general engineering as they may feature quite strongly.

Engineering is full-on and one of the highest workload degrees.possibly apart from medicine. Ask about drop out rates at places you visit. Some unis seem to take loads with low a levels then have many dropout or fail to get into 2nd year. Ask about the staff to student ratio.
Physics is easier in terms of workload, and can lead to many jobs in tech and software jobs as its about thinking logically. Engineering is more about applying science in a specific area so does not go as deep into the science if that makes sense, but has a lot of Maths!. If he likes making things go for engineering if he likes analysing go for physics. They are very different.

@blueshoesDH until very recently owned a civil and structural engineering consultancy. The route to becoming chartered is quickest with MEng in any engineering discipline. The pathway for BEng is Incorporated Engineer. Any grad that can demonstrate engineering knowledge and apply it is very employable. Employment is no issue at all.

Not going into engineering is something engineers do! Always has been. However this is more common at top end elite RG universities. An engineering MEng opens up many doors and decent grads who actually want to work in Engineering are well taught at many universities but not all prepare dc well for work and problem solving. A critical mass of grads with similar aims and abilities often helps but any university in the top 20 is probably great. Choose vibrant engineering unis like Southampton, Bristol or Sheffield and you won’t go wrong.

Working abroad is very possible but think about where. CEng is recognised globally. Cannot see any particular advantage in going upon graduation if no MFL. Of course some firms might work in English but not all.

A friend of my son's did Maritime Engineering at Southampton, which I suspect is a rarer qualification than other engineering disciplines. He has a really good job and is now based in Norway.

I think your DS should wait til he is consistentlt settled on what he wants to do.

Thanks for all the insights. Really appreciate it.

Ds would love to get into Bristol, Bath, Sheffield and Southampton.

What do people think of Leeds, Queen Mary, Birmingham and Manchester for engineering?

I have a degree in physics and work in an engineering industry and have worked as an engineer in the past. It might depend how technical you want to be but in the companies I have worked for we rarely discriminate between physics/engineering when hiring.
Once you’re past entry level your work experience and further specialist training would count far more than your original degree.
You can become a chartered Engineer with a physics degree through the institute of physics. Again in my industry we wouldn’t discriminate between chartered engineer or chartered physicist.

QMUL - not really. Others yes. All the other 4 are going to challenge him - does he have FM? All of those 4 are very strong for engineering. What A levels is he doing?

Physics is great.
You can do a broader spectrum in year one and then pick options as you go through. It leads brilliantly into engineering. But also given it's high maths load, can also switch into finance.

@Brickiscool Physics is not an approved course by engineering institutions. It’s not suitable for processional engineers who actually want to be qualified. How can you prove what you say?

Ds took Maths, Physics and Economics for A level. He does not have FM.

Do you think he could not cope with the Engineering course without FM?

Nope, not all. This is normally just theoretical math at competitive universities. Even then, it's not always a deal breaker - the uni would want to know how the applicant is keeping their skills up

@TizerorFizz apologies, reading it over, my last question to you sounded a little aggressive.

Ds is also concerned he did not take FM at A level.

Not that many students at his Sixth Form took FM and not all schools offer FM. Granted the very competitive courses at Imperial, Bath and Bristol look at FM which ds accepts probably won't come up in clearing anyway, would places like Sheffield, Southampton, Warwick, Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester also require FM to get in at clearing or, if he gets in, to keep up with the course?

@Pinkissmart if ds took a gap year, he will be self-studying FM (with a tutor) in that year.

My sixth form let me stay an extra year, and I took year 1 and 2 of further maths at the same time. Because that are modular, it worked out ok. Might that be an alternative for your son? I worked part time as well. But really appreciated the company of other students, rather than trying to self study

@blueshoes If he wants mechanical engineering it just makes it an easier transition from A level to degree with FM. Lots of universities will not list it as required for the reasons you state, but it’s helpful. A confidence boost to feel they are not behind the curve so to speak.

Thanks @TizerorFizz that makes sense.

@Ramblingaway it would be ideal if ds' school would let ds do FM with them in his gap year, if he took a year out. He needs to chase it up with them. He is going hell for leather in clearing first, before falling back on a gap year.

When you say you worked part time, was it an engineering internship or regular part time / temp jobs?

It was just regular bar work. But it felt good to be out the house and have some money! Plus it got me some soft skills that didn't exactly come naturally to me, but have served me well ever since.

@Ramblingaway it is good to know you got a lot out of your gap year.

I’m a Fellow of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, and I’ve been the recruiting manager / director for many engineers over my career, and mentored several through to their chartership.

Here’s the key things:

• professional registration / chartership isn’t the be all and end all for engineering but the more technical the role the more appreciated it is. Engineering is a broad church and people who come up from the tools can still make a place in process / manufacturing / facilities engineering, but less so in research and design.
• if you want to follow the professional route then do pick an engineering degree, do ensure it’s accredited by the institution he wants to join.
• Not all engineering titled degrees are engineering degrees. Beware of being “sold” a degree in cleaning. Degrees like “engineering management” don’t contain sufficient theory to make anyone useful as either an engineer or a manager.
• if he is unsure of which discipline start with a “pure” degree - Chemical, mechanical, civil or electrical. Specialising too early can make it hard to switch. Staying broad makes it easier to specialise later - at Masters level for example.
• Don’t be too snobby about the university - look at the opportunities and facilities not the name. If the degree is accredited it will have the content.

Engineering is a great choice and opens up a world of opportunities but it’s a hard work degree so he had better be committed. The timetables are well in excess of most other degrees and there is a lot of weighting to finals rather than continuous assessment.

If he’s at all unsure - go for the year out and get some experience!