Page 20 | Southampton publishes Clearing grade requirements

HPFA · 2025-07-09T19:58:43+00:00

I think this is the first time I've seen an RG Uni publishing Clearing grade requirements before Results Day. It's not for all courses but a lot of popular subjects nonetheless [[https://www.southampton.ac.uk/clearing/course-vacancies?availableOnly=true&filter=&studentType=uk&subject=All+Subjects https://www.southampton.ac.uk/clearing/course-vacancies?subject=All+Subjects&filter=&studentType=uk&availableOnly=true]] Not sure what it means for those students holding offers at Southampton - does it indicate how far they can drop grades and still get in?

murasaki · 18/08/2025 13:24

Best of luck to GrumpyMule junior!

WombatChocolate · 18/08/2025 14:51

HPFA · 18/08/2025 12:08

@GrumpyMuleFan

There's a research report here on Foundation Years which is quite interesting.

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/HEPI-Report-170_Cracks-in-our-foundations_final.pdf

I don't think there's anything wrong with students targeting their preferred uni in Clearing. If you like the look of History at Southampton and you have CCC why not go? If you're not bothered by the fact most students will have higher grades than you might well be fine.

Maths I think is a bit trickier - if you're one of a few students with a B where almost everyone else has an A or an A* then it's a lot easier to see how this could be difficult.

Personally my gripe about the Russell Group is that it's a self-selecting closed shop that has ended up being presented to schools and parents as if it was some kind of "elite" and intrinsically better. And it's pretty clear that there are really no grounds for eg Southampton to be seen as any more elite than the likes of Swansea, Leicester, Reading, Sussex, Aber, Brookes etc.

I would much prefer the genuinely elite unis in the Russell Group split off to form a new group.

Who do you think could form a genuinely elite group? It would always be debatable and differ by subject.

pumpkinjooce · 18/08/2025 14:56

The Russell Group was never about being "elite" it was about being research-intensive. It was adopted by schools/parents as a proxy for quality before league tables became a better (but still flawed) proxy for quality.

League tables all use different criteria, so need to be used with caution, but at least they are generally upfront about their criteria.

TizerorFizz · 18/08/2025 15:13

@WombatChocolate Schools decided to do this and RG didn’t ask them to! RG expanded - certainly Exeter and QMUL are more recent additions. I’m sure the non RG universities don’t care! St Andrews? Why would they? Ditto Bath and a few others. The main thing is that parents are aware of quality beyond RG. RG isn’t all at the same level either. So it’s down to school advisers to make this clear. I think it’s lazy not to.

SheilaFentiman · 18/08/2025 15:20

@TizerorFizz you can’t put everything at the door of school advisers - there’s plenty of info out there for young people to research the best course for them, by whatever criteria they choose

Original poster

HPFA · 18/08/2025 15:22

WombatChocolate · 18/08/2025 14:51

Who do you think could form a genuinely elite group? It would always be debatable and differ by subject.

Show quote history

We could argue whether there's a need for a group at all. I don't really know why the Russell Group exists in the first place - presumably it wasn't invented as a marketing device.

But Southampton, Nottingham and Cardiff are now much more similar to Leicester, Reading and UEA than they are to Oxbridge or Imperial. So why are they in a group with them?

OP posts:

pumpkinjooce · 18/08/2025 15:25

HPFA · 18/08/2025 15:22

We could argue whether there's a need for a group at all. I don't really know why the Russell Group exists in the first place - presumably it wasn't invented as a marketing device.

But Southampton, Nottingham and Cardiff are now much more similar to Leicester, Reading and UEA than they are to Oxbridge or Imperial. So why are they in a group with them?

Show quote history

@HPFA there is info about the history of the Russell Group here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Group

"The group was established in 1994 to represent its members' interests, principally to government and Parliament."

Russell Group - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Group

TizerorFizz · 18/08/2025 15:26

@SheilaFentiman I think schools have a huge influence. They organise careers evenings,A level and degree subject talks and university application talks. Lots of parents and dc have no idea about university ranking and RG or not.

My DN chose a university close to the football club she supported. It was RG but she had been fed a diet by teachers that all universities are equal followed up by “look at me - I’ve done ok”. So I’m not saying schools are the only source of info but they are guiding young people and should give accurate info.

titchy · 18/08/2025 16:33

TizerorFizz · 18/08/2025 15:13

@WombatChocolate Schools decided to do this and RG didn’t ask them to! RG expanded - certainly Exeter and QMUL are more recent additions. I’m sure the non RG universities don’t care! St Andrews? Why would they? Ditto Bath and a few others. The main thing is that parents are aware of quality beyond RG. RG isn’t all at the same level either. So it’s down to school advisers to make this clear. I think it’s lazy not to.

Actually the conservative government did, by making the percentage of sixth formers who left for a RG uni a KPI….

OneDivineHammer · 19/08/2025 20:19

So, following up on @HPFA 's question above - which exactly are high, mid and low tariff universities?

I presume Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial are high tariff.
What about KCL? UCL? LSE? High or mid?
Is Leicester low tariff? What about Southampton?

This page which was linked earlier seems to allocate these three groupings confidently, but I can't see evidence of which universities they mean. Is tariff just a reference to how many points an applicant needs for the average course at a uni? It seems so nebulous, yet is being used in reporting a fair bit recently.
Social Market Foundation: "🔵Higher tariff acceptances have soared, far surpassing even their pandemic peak in 2021 🔵In lower tariff unis, acceptances have fallen slightly Lower tariff unis are squeezed as higher and medium tariff ones expand to plug budget gaps..." — Bluesky

Social Market Foundation (@smfthinktank.bsky.social)

🔵Higher tariff acceptances have soared, far surpassing even their pandemic peak in 2021 🔵In lower tariff unis, acceptances have fallen slightly Lower tariff unis are squeezed as higher and medium tariff ones expand to plug budget gaps...

https://bsky.app/profile/smfthinktank.bsky.social/post/3lwe5dtza5k27

Original poster

HPFA · 19/08/2025 20:44

OneDivineHammer · 19/08/2025 20:19

So, following up on @HPFA 's question above - which exactly are high, mid and low tariff universities?

I presume Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial are high tariff.
What about KCL? UCL? LSE? High or mid?
Is Leicester low tariff? What about Southampton?

This page which was linked earlier seems to allocate these three groupings confidently, but I can't see evidence of which universities they mean. Is tariff just a reference to how many points an applicant needs for the average course at a uni? It seems so nebulous, yet is being used in reporting a fair bit recently.
Social Market Foundation: "🔵Higher tariff acceptances have soared, far surpassing even their pandemic peak in 2021 🔵In lower tariff unis, acceptances have fallen slightly Lower tariff unis are squeezed as higher and medium tariff ones expand to plug budget gaps..." — Bluesky

Apparently the only place to see which unis are classed as high/medium/low is as part of the Widening Participation Datasets.

The link here should be to the right page - then go to the heading Using this Data - Download this data set - and it's an Exel spreadsheet which says High/Medium/Low for each uni

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-catalogue/data-set/d4afbfe7-1715-4bc2-b108-63bdb6df890b

Tariff Groups, Data set from Widening participation in higher education

Find, download and explore official Department for Education (DfE) statistics and data in England.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-catalogue/data-set/d4afbfe7-1715-4bc2-b108-63bdb6df890b

OP posts:

MarchingFrogs · 20/08/2025 08:03

murasaki · 18/08/2025 13:00

One thing to bear in mind, is that it will be four years of finance so I don't think there's any wiggle room for needing to retake a year at any point, but I may be wrong on that so worth checking.

I'm not entirely sure without looking at the student finance website, but the general formula is 'length of current course, plus one year, minus years of previous study'. Someone on a course which is four or five years from the outset - e.g. MSci -(not Medicine) would still get a 'grace year' AFAIK, so perhaps it would depend on whether the degree itself was 'X with a foundation year', vs the foundation year being separate?

TizerorFizz · 20/08/2025 08:51

@titchy When talking to pupils schools can include a number of universities in addition to RG. They are not obliged to steer dc to RG if they are not right for dc. However they should not say all universities are equal - and some advisers still do.