English, History and PE A levels, potentially for Oxbridge

[Drangea]

DS is considering the above combination. Aiming to read English or History. Teachers are recommending he applies to Oxbridge. High achieving kid at a super selective boys grammar that send lots to Oxbridge to give context.
We have not discussed with teachers yet, wanted to get a feel first.
Thanks in advance
(also posted in further education, but was advised to move to here)

Land Economy
Otherwise known as BA Managing One's Estate.

Although maybe those could be classed as Professions rather than Vocations.

But it’s understandable when if you need an A* for your uni course. If you have only been learning Spanish from age 11 versus your friend who is bilingual and speaks at home whereas you live in a house where no one speaks it, I can totally see how you rationalise in your head- I like the language but even if I work my socks off I’ll never be at the standard of my friend and so it is not worth the risk. Or even if you can get to that standard you are going to have to put in far more work. No other subject has that degree of inbuilt unfairness. Sad to say but there is a degree of looking at chances of getting top grades when you have to achieve them to get the course you want. A-levels are, at the heart, just a way of getting into uni where you do the subject you ultimately want to study.

"vocational" just means that it prepares you for a particular job/occupation/profession.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with estates or the management of them. Have a look at the course modules. You will be very surprised.

No my DC did not study this.

I do think it's very concerning that so many people think you have to make a choice between science and humanities at 16 when the universities don't insiston it. England is an outlier in both Europe and the English speaking world to push such early specialisation. I would say it is vastly beneficial for a student to continue to do both and having a science A level (which is what PE is, despite the snobbery shown on here) will teach valuable analytical skills that can be applied across multiple subjects. In addition to the individual performance and the human anatomy you study the history of sport, media and commercialisation of sport, and sociology of sport. Sounds like a fascinating subject. My DD is mixing sciences and humanities for A level and is loving it, the most important thing is that they study A level subjects they find interesting so that they are motivated to put the work in.

Back in the day Land Economy was a bit of a joke subject for rowers etc etc. But now it is a very popular course as it combines economics, law and the environment with some financial and business modules thrown in.

It is very difficult to get an offer - about 11% success rate, similar to engineering.

This is simply not true. Oxbridge offer on 3 A levels. An EPQ in a related subject is helpful. What they are more interested in are your extra curriculars and what else you have done related to your chosen subject, what extra reading you have done, have you connected with scholars etc. It is better to do well at 3, even if the 4th is further maths.

https://oxbridgeapplications.com/blog/oxbridge-applications-a-level-guide/

Ah, @MrsElijahMikaelson1, this fact has been explained to @OneGiddyRubyViewer who has sadly not shown up for a bit since her increasingly bonkers and wildly inaccurate assertions were kicked into the long grass by far, far more knowledgeable posters who actually knew of what they spoke. According to her, despite only 180 or so students taking 5 A levels last year in, we assume, a variety of subjects, they are all being taught English by her sister at Cambridge.

Neither did mine.

But it has a more "vocational" slant than for example Classics or Maths.

And it's one of those cross curricular courses that so many people sneer at when taught at a post-92 university.

LOL at everything about this thread, there's nothing more likely to irk MN higher education than trolling about Oxbridge admissions

I'd say OP, I'd have thought Oxbridge might well be OK with PE IF (as actually qualified admissions tutors have said on here) he shines in interviews. The real risk is what other "top" unis think - I can well imagine Durham, St A, Edin, Bristol, UCl, Warwick and so on, who don't interview and go solely on grades (personal statement to a MUCH lesser degree) dismissing a candidate with PE as their third A level immediately. So for that reason I wouldn't go there.

Good luck!

And on another note, it infuriates me that bilinguals have "ruined" MFL for everyone, so many kids won't touch it now as too risky.

@Umbilicat my DS got offers from RG unis, inc one you specifically mention, with PE as one of his three A levels. So did a good mate of his who went to Bath for maths (so, not RG but not bad!).

Then I stand slightly corrected, but still think it's risky - it seems to be harder and harder to get into these unis every year and if this boy's at a high-acheiving school I think it might be held against him. But maybe other admissions' tutors can advise.

Friend's son got straight offers from all his RG UCAS applications with PE in the mix. He was doing History. As others have said, it's a well regarded (except on MN) science subject. If they want to do History and they do History A level, another essay subject and a STEM subject, and the predicted grades match what the uni wants then I don't believe they would reject someone because PE was in the mix.

It's like people on MN always saying that Psychology A level won't be regarded by unis when it's now the second most popular subject.

Edited to shove that bit in!

Why though? It’s a perfectly good A level as lots of ppl have already noted. Many unis (as also noted) accept it as a second science subject for a STEM degree. Edinburgh (at a random search of unis you name) has PE on its list of approved subjects. Not sure why you think unis would reject an otherwise acceptable application that included this rigorously assessed science subject

I don’t understand how all A-levels aren’t perfectly good A-levels. If it is A-level standard it should be accepted by any university. The idea that somehow Business wouldn’t be accepted by Cambridge but PE is seems rather bizarre. Surely it is all or nothing?

@mimbleandlittlemy Bwahaha😂

This feels a bit naive/idealistic, and I say that as someone who has both 'acceptable' A-levels like Eng Lit and less acceptable ones like Media Studies. They're all A-level standard but that doesn't mean they're all the same standard, which is right as they have different applications. No doubt Business A-level is much more useful for running businesses than Latin A-level, but Latin is more useful for impressing venerable institutions. Just like all degrees aren't as meaningful as ever to various employers. There's been some really good changes over the years - as this thread attests - to make things fairer, so three A-levels really does suffice and there's less advantage for private school kids and so on, but I think it's going too far to say it should be all or nothing without any nuance. Even A-levels themselves have different bars of entry to them, so you can do Media Studies with fairly low GCSE grades whereas for Maths it's rare to even be allowed on it with less an 8 or 9. Some subjects just are more academic and that's fine and means there's a spread of options for most people. It doesn't mean Oxbridge have to accept every A-level when it's not relevant to their needs and methods. They need some way to whittle down the numbers.

Then they shouldn’t be called A-levels then. It makes no sense. You should know if you are doing an A-level there is a certain standard that it entails. If something is ‘lower’ than an A-level then it’s not an A-level.

You, therefore, did your A levels before the JQC reforms which were largely carried out to standardise levels of difficulty across subjects. It was at this point that most eliteist unis had to cave and start accepting all post reform A levels as equal.

Can media studies actually ever be as academically rigorous as, say, physics tho?

PE is statistically harder than media studies or business studies. It is more difficult that public perceptions.
See figure 9 in this document.
Inter-subject comparability in GCSEs and A levels in summer 2023 - GOV.UK https://share.google/9t0MjKtEQ7NDB6Bam

However, I think it would be better not to do PE with History and Englisg for Cambridge.

Plenty of physics students couldn't do a Media A level.

That’s true and I certainly couldn’t do either

PE is possibly the one subject I couldn't get a decent A level in!

My school reports were AAAA.......then a C at the end for PE 😂

(though it would depend on how much the academic parts could compensate for the complete failure to throw a ball)