English, History and PE A levels, potentially for Oxbridge

[Drangea]

DS is considering the above combination. Aiming to read English or History. Teachers are recommending he applies to Oxbridge. High achieving kid at a super selective boys grammar that send lots to Oxbridge to give context.
We have not discussed with teachers yet, wanted to get a feel first.
Thanks in advance
(also posted in further education, but was advised to move to here)

Repeating the post I made in the FE thread:

PE isn’t mentioned here in the list of the best A level subjects for Arts and Humanities at Cambridge. However, it’s not in the list of “less helpful” subjects, either.

See what school says.

PE as an A level, when he could’ve taken something more academic, would not impress Oxbridge. Sorry.

As PP says, it’s not on the less helpful a level subject list, but Oxbridge is so competitive and there will be people applying with multiple a-levels of the preferred/best subjects who still aren’t getting in.

they will also be wanting 5 a levels at a high grade, not just 3.

have you sat down and asked him what made him pick PE, what he wants to do as a job? He may not even want to go to oxbridge.

plenty of Uni’s and colleges will accept a good PE grade especially if he wants to do something like PE teaching or sports science.

They do focus on 3 levels but doing more helps convey that you are able to take on a large workload. It’s not technically essential but most students who get in (I’ve known a few) had 5 a levels. He also needs 3 A*s or A’s.

as I said though depending on what he wants to do with his life Oxbridge may not be the best thing for him.

if he does apply- make sure he has backup choices of uni

It really isn't helpful to suggest Oxbridge are looking for 5 A levels. They categorically are not. Pre-reform, which is now a long time ago, this was a little more common, but absolutely not now. Even if a PP knows students like that it would be incredibly unusual. Such unhelpful comments do nothing for widening access ( not relevant here, I know).
OP, usual advice is that 2 preferred subjects is fine. Even from a super selective. If he's offering very high grades in all 3. The 3rd wildcard may be a point of interest. But mostly, can he get an excellent grade?

He needs to drop PE and do something much more academic. A subject that would complement English or History would be ideal.

Economics, Religious Studies,, Philosophy, Latin, History of Art - any of these would be a much better choice than PE.

I agree to talk to the school. If he has English and History, he should be fine with PE Alevel as his third but I would go with the school's advice, particularly as there's a fair amount of science in PE Alevel and so he should be sure he will actually enjoy and thrive on the course.

You don't need 5 A-levels for Oxbridge. 3 is fine, except for subjects that require Further Maths, which may sometimes require that as a 4th (ie not accept only 3 A-levels if FM is one).

What year is he in? I assume just finishing year 10 (or he'd have chosen) and I'm a bit surprised teachers are encouraging towards anything yet! DD is year 10 and I can't get some teachers to even agree to predict 9s (is they don't predict any 9s in year 10, not DD specific), let alone suggest Oxbridge is an option!

I may need to take that part on 4 A-levels if FM back - I can't see anything for Cambridge at least saying they don't count FM as one of three.

DC at selective independent school. No one takes 5 A levels, no one!
All start with 4 and most drop to 3 by Christmas year 12. This is mainly so kids can 'try before they buy' the new A level subjects like psychology etc.
Most who do 4 have FM. (One of mine did 4 outside this to keep his music going along side the 3 sciences he was taking, but he was unusual).
Oxbridge is highly competitive. Does the school have examples of kids getting in with this A level combo? Are they even the right unis for what he wants to study?
If school say its worth it, it might be. Any Oxbridge UCAS choice has to be seen as a 'wasted' space as it is such a tall order. But there are 4 other UCAS slots.
My DS got rejected for Cambridge after interview with 4 A star predicted. But he was very happy with the other unis on his UCAS app. In hindsight he is glad he didn't get in. It wouldn't have been as good as his current uni for his subject.

They absolutely do not ask for 5 alevels. DD is at a high performing grammar with a lot of Oxbridge offers (yr 13) and literally not one of them does 5. A few do 4, vast majority 3 (including her) But yeah I’d drop PE for something else. It doesn’t really ‘go’ with the others & doesn’t look academic.

3 A Levels and if he has an area to shine an EPQ is a great choice

Obviously English and History A levels are solid foundations for English or History degree applications. Adding PE into the mix is unusual (only 50 18 yo did sat this combo in 2024).

However, people should not sweepingly assume PE will be regarded as some kind of lesser subject. The priority will be grade maximisation and (where relevant for Oxbridge courses), score in any additional tests in the Autumn of Y13.

With the above in mind, it is probably sensible for your DC to check they fully understand what is required to achieve a very good outcome in PE at A level: whether permitted sports and assessments align with DC's strengths and interests, whether the school has a track record of helping students achieve a good grade etc.

@Drangea what is your son’s argument for how PE complements the other two subjects? How does he believe it will enhance his study of English or History at undergraduate level? Is he a precocious genius with a brilliant thesis that demands this particular combination of subjects? Or is he thinking it’ll be a bit of a doss? Or what, exactly? He does need to have an answer.

(Several of my closest friends teach and interview at Oxbridge colleges - they would want to know how he arrived at this decision.)

I agree with this. The only caveat being that History of Art as an A level was entirely scrapped in 2018. (Such a shame.I took that A level and it was challenging.)

Also better for History or English at Oxbridge is a foreign language A level -

He’s very similar to me in that he will work and achieve and get top marks in any externally set goals but doesn’t have much imagination about a life he might make for himself once he’s not sitting exams. So ideas for a future career are very thin on the ground. If he carries on in this vein, he will probably end up being a lawyer, because that’s what he has seen and knows (and he has mentioned going into sports law a few times).
He just absolutely loves PE! And history and English.
His school send about 35 to Oxbridge every year and it’s more of a vague conversation ongoing in the background with a sprinkling of “he’s Oxbridge material and should be leaning that way” at parents evening than any kind of targeted conversation with him yet.

Can he not do a ton of PE related activities at school without doing the A level and take something with more clout?

He could also do RP which he enjoys and is good at. He also quite fancies Politics.
It’s obviously just a lot of essay heavy subjects and fairly similar in how the a level is structured. He really enjoys PE and sports generally and we idling about whether it would be a good idea to combine them.

PE as an A level is simply not academic nor is it remotely connected to Humanities subjects at degree level. It would make an easy excuse to not forward his application in the admissions office at a university like Oxford or Cambridge.

What about biology instead?

@OneGiddyRubyViewer Bullshit!😁

DD school have 10 Oxford offers & 6 Cambridge offers on 3 or 4 (usually further maths).

Honestly - where DO you get your info from?

OP is he wanting to do English Language? That's not usually seen as quite as "academic", it's usually English Literature that they want. For example the Cambridge list of "helpful" A-levels puts English Lit not English Language.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/before/choosing-high-school-subjects

English Literature x

I have no idea about how the combination would be viewed. It sounds as though the school have plenty of Oxbridge experience so I would have a chat with people there I think. I also wonder about contacting a couple of admissions tutors at colleges to ask them - I think they are quite happy to respond to these sorts of queries.
I also think the reason that both Oxford and Cambridge publish so much about their admissions stats and processes is to counter unhelpful assertions like 'everyone has 5 A stars'. They don't. I went to Oxford, as did my husband, sister and two of our in-laws. We have lots of friends who went to Oxbridge and now several kids in the family/friendship group who are there. I know literally no one who did 5 A levels and the vast majority did three. And this anecdata is borne out by the published admissions stats.

@OneGiddyRubyViewer - you are unhelpfully incorrect about Oxford requiring 5 A levels. This is from Oxford's website:

Studying more than three A-levels
Offers will normally only be made for three A-levels regardless of how many you are taking, though the offer may specify in which three subjects we want the required grades.
Any additional A-levels that you choose to take will be considered, and can help to demonstrate your ability to handle a large workload. However, we recommend that you think carefully before taking on any additional A-levels as this may reduce the time you have to read around your chosen subject beyond your school or college work.
We advise candidates not to spread themselves too thinly across too many subjects, where they may risk dropping a grade or two in their results. Our offers are made on the basis of exam grades rather than UCAS Tariff points, so three A/A grades would be sufficient to meet most conditional offers, but two As and two Bs would not.

I didn’t say it was required but everyone I know who has got in did more than 3. It tends to impress then if you do more than the minimum but not so many that you struggle with the work.

mist students nowadays are Oxbridge have 5-6.

PE would not be looked upon favourably really so it’s maybe with the son either dumping it for something like history, or taking an extra a level in history.

The study of English Lit at Oxbridge normally entails quite a lot of study of Old English and Middle English. If he takes something like Latin that will show he can manage archaic texts and language.