English, History and PE A levels, potentially for Oxbridge

[Drangea]

DS is considering the above combination. Aiming to read English or History. Teachers are recommending he applies to Oxbridge. High achieving kid at a super selective boys grammar that send lots to Oxbridge to give context.
We have not discussed with teachers yet, wanted to get a feel first.
Thanks in advance
(also posted in further education, but was advised to move to here)

Again, we do need that laughing/crying emoticon. So much.

There’s some amazing advice here

@JulesJules sorry to be pedantic (and almost everything you say is absolutely right) but if you check the subject requirements for History, then History A-level is only recommended, not required.

I actually asked one of our College History tutors specifically whether they would take someone without History A-level. They said it had never happened, but in principle if someone showed sufficiently interest and aptitude through the HAT, interviews etc then yes they would.

I'm certainly not suggesting that dropping History is advisable, but it does show that there is more flexibility than you might think.

I had a place with English Lit, History and Theatre Studies for Oxford, way back in the day. My DF was mortified at me dropping my 4th subject (French). But when we approached my chosen college directly, they were happy to consider my application. Long time ago but worth exploring further if he’s passionate about it and talented I’d have thought. I’d imagine school might try to persuade him to do another academic subject as it’s likely ‘safer’ - esp if he’s capable. But I personally think it’s no fun studying something at that level that you don’t want to. But my views on this now I have a DD are very different to the pressure I was under as a teen.

Totally not relevant, but in my cohort doing English Lit 20 years ago, one bloke switched in the second year to maths. I was amazed he could do that; it is massively harder to learn a whole year of maths than a whole year of any arts/hums subject. But he did it, and he was fine, and he went on to get a first. So there we go.

For that matter, in my niche area, it's really common for people to switch between English and History post-PhD, so I know a fair few people who don't have a degree in History/English but are working academics in the subject. I've taught postgrad history courses, and my degree is English. A mate of mine is a historian who came up through English Lit and she didn't even do GCSE history.

DC is graduating from Cambridge this week and next to nobody did 5 A-levels. The only person he ever heard of was someone in his college who was trilingual and totally fluent in Spanish and Portuguese, alongside English. So this student (who applied for MML), did A-levels in Spanish, Portuguese, French and then Politics and something else.

Applicants for Maths, Economics, Medicine, CS and Natural Sciences will often have 4 A-levels because the fourth is FM. But that's it. And if a school doesn't offer FM, a student is at no disadvantage to not have it.

For humanities courses, three A-levels (preferably relevant and from the 'preferred subjects' list) is fine. A relevant EPQ is also good for developing key interest areas and demonstrating independent research skills.

Cambridge will interview about 70%-80% of applicants for History or English. Of most importance will be the admissions test and the interview and they will be most interested in super curriculars - not sport, but what you have done in, or connected to, your chosen subject beyond the A-level syllabus. The interview is a way of selecting students they think are likely to get the most out of their supervision system.

If I were advising your DS OP, I'd say if he's really set on Cambridge and wants to give himself the best chance, drop PE for something like Philosophy or Politics or a language.

There is no such thing as asking to go into clearance or a reserve list for Cambridge. Nor do loads of students drop out in the first term! If the pp means the summer pool, that is at the discretion of the admissions teams and a minuscule amount get in this way. Most of the summer pool is basically what's called 'adjustment' - in which a small amount of students from 'flagged' backgrounds may be offered places at the last minute if enough don't meet the grades on a particular course on A-level day. But this is only a very small amount of students and you certainly can't sign up for this process!

Interesting @irregularegular ! Thanks, yes I'd just looked up English. I think History was essential when D1 applied; now it's English that is essential. D1 also had to sit the HAT - but I see that they are no longer asking applicants to do the HAT for History or the ELAT for English.

Is there no admissions test for English next year?

No, no ELAT or HAT required

OP, I’d also say take a look at past Freedom of Information requests and send one off if needed. Having the data points to back up guidance from school.

👍🏻 My Son is currently reading History at Oxford with a combination of Gov Pol, History and Geography A levels.

On the website it says there is an English Assessment on Nov 18th?

they will be most interested in super curriculars - not sport, but what you have done in, or connected to, your chosen subject beyond the A-level syllabus.

I realise you may be tailoring this advice to the OP's son, who is at a selective school and obviously has quite a lot of privilege. But, on the whole, people recognise that there's a pretty high element of privilege in super curriculars.

From FOI requests, I see offers for Psychology & Linguistics at Oxford, Land Economy and Economics at Cambridge with Physical Education being one of 3 A Levels. It does show that Oxbridge do not discount it as a subject, although it's a small number that take it. Not sure if it works better with the subjects above compared to History.

OP I’ve been advising Oxbridge applicants for 20 years.
they do not want 5 a levels. That’s complete rubbish. Most get in with 3.
don’t do PE.
pm me if you want any advice. Good luck!

PE A level is looked down on by some (including some on here!) but somewhat incorrectly IMHO.

Yes it’s not on the Cambs preferred list, but even Cambs says you only need take two of those A levels for an arts degree.

My DS took PE, got a great grade and got offers from four RG unis and the RG+ one he has ended up at (tho he didn’t have the grades to apply to Oxford or Cambridge). And no he does not do sports science – in fact he does biology so a pretty solid subject (not that sports sci is not haha). In fact he found PE A Level very sciencey (it is counted as a second science for STEM degrees by a lot of unis) and basically biology #2 for him. More direct use I suspect in his human-bio-focused degree than the maths he also took.

@Drangea if your DC will get the highest grade in PE then it is a good one to take, as for Cambs and Oxford it is top grades that matter above all. I am sure there are many students at Oxford and Cambridge with a third A level like drama or sociology. Not taking STEM courses maybe, but on the arts side. I agree it might be an idea to contact admissions tutors tho.

I would say tho as some others do, it’s a bit of an outlier. It’s basically a science A level so pairing it with history and Eng is a bit unusual. What’s driving it? Does he love biology? Why not take another more like the hums ones chosen, such as gov/pol or RS, especially given his suggested possible uni course choice? And yes I would also agree with a PP that he should carefully interrogate how PE A level will fit with his ability – does his preferred sport apply, what level does he compete at, is he actually really good at biology?

So basically echoing the excellent post from @MrsAvocet; I agree with the points about the need for a high standard in sport for a high grade overall. It’s also worth thinking about summer vs winter sports – a friend of DS’s offered sprinting which mostly is done in the summer – so they had to make sure his Year 12 season was up to scratch, as April/May of year 13 would be too late.

As lots of others say, btw, @OneGiddyRubyViewer's claim that “most” students at Oxford and Cambridge have 5-6 A levels is such nonsense. I see they claim that most of the students who started at Cambridge this year had 5 or 6 A levels. How can this be true? Thousands of students are in their first year at Cambs. Vanishingly few students sit more than 4 A levels (literally as others have posted fewer than 200 last year) so the uni would be empty. All the students I know who have gone to these unis in recent years have done three A levels, or, if four, they have had maths and FM as two.

DS is looking at RG unis rather than Oxbridge, but my takeaway from this thread is that on his ucas form he should list not ‘Drama’ but ‘Drama (Oddly)’.

Your experience is unusual and may be because you know a lot of science applicants and/or from a very selective school. In general 3 A levels is fine. There was an official Cambridge admissions webinar yday evening and one of the questions was, do you need to do 4 A levels. And the clear answer was no, not necessary, and it is more important to get 3 top grades.

This is further supported by the admissions statistics and FOIs.

I’m thinking of starting a thread “university admissions myths” as so many people post utter nonsense on these threads.

OP - I suggest you email the admissions tutor at one of the Oxbridge colleges and ask them directly about PE. Even your school may not know for sure if they haven’t had a candidate sit this combo.

I’m thinking of starting a thread “university admissions myths” as so many people post utter nonsense on these threads.

Brilliant! I mean it would be useful.

There is an Ofqual page where you can look at A level subject combinations. Around 50 students took History, Eng Lit and PE in 2024 so it is extremely rare. One thing to consider is that rare subject combinations often result in exam clashes.

Statement on the Oxford English Literature Admissions Test (ELAT)
Candidates applying in October 2025 will not sit the Oxford ELAT

The Faculty of English has taken the decision not to set an admissions test (the Oxford ELAT) for candidates applying in October 2025 to study English. Though we remain committed in the long term to the value and efficacy of setting a standard test for all applicants, we are currently undertaking a process to consider how we can run the Oxford ELAT in future in a way that gives all candidates the best opportunity to demonstrate the critical skills and thinking we are looking for. Once this process is complete, we hope to be in a position to run the Oxford ELAT again.
Candidates applying in 2025 to study English alongside another subject (Classics, History, or a Modern Language) will not take the Oxford ELAT, but may be required to take an admissions test in the other subject. Please consult the admissions pages for that subject for up-to-date information on whether they are setting an admissions test and, if so, the form that test will take.
Applicants will still be required to send us samples of their written work, which we look forward to reading. Updated guidelines on written work can be found here.

Looks like they are revamping the written tests

How about Geography?

Ahh you've made me waste a big chunk of my morning down this particular rabbit hole @LikeABat 😂 I've never seen this data before and it's fascinating. My DS did his A levels last year so we now know how many pupils sat every combination that any of his friends did! (He was one of only 280 to do his combination, though there were two at his not particularly big school.) I was surprised by some of the numbers. I knew Maths was the most popular Alevel but I was surprised by quite how much. And more do Business Studies and Sociology than Physics which I wasn't expecting. Even as a scientist myself I think the low numbers taking MFLs is depressing. It's really interesting looking at how the results profiles vary within different combinations too - thanks for sharing the info. But I have done none of the jobs I needed to do today!

I want the haha emoticon for this post @MrsAvocet!

I have lots to do and must not look for this page tho it sounds fascinating. It’s sadly true about MFL tho especially German, which last time I looked was around 2,000 students taking it at A level across the whole country.

I am assuming this is a reaction to the fact that it has been revealed that their admissions form selective fee paying schools have gone back up again. They will eb looking quite closely at their admissions strategies and the bias - unconscious or otherwise- inherent in them. for example, the preference for 5 A levels and deffo not PE no no