Law - which alevels?

[makemineadecaf]

Interested to hear what alevels kids chose to pursue the LLB. Particularly at Russell Group universities. Dd is year 10 and was firm on medicine but has now dropped in that she may like to do law. She needs to pick alevels by February and obviously medicine related alevels would be quite different so she needs to be sure!

Thank you everyone. A 4th alevel is not an option. We’ve got about six months to firm up the choices which is good.

biology and chemistry are definites, we’ll have to see what she decides on for the third. I have a feeling she won’t want to commit to an essay based subject but who knows. We’ve got a few sixth form events in the next few months so time to chat it though with her teachers too.

@makemineadecaf So I would not think Law is a good fit for undergrad for her. Not liking essays isn’t really a great start. Most lawyers have to write opinions as part of their work - certainly DD as a barrister does. It’s analytical but also written communication matters. If she prefers sciences - do them.

Agree Tizer - Law doesn’t sound the ideal fit atm, if the DD is so clear that she doesn’t want to do an essay subject.

https://www.stemfuturelawyers.co.uk/

Worth her checking the entry requirements of say top 15 unis for law (Times or Complete Uni Guide) I had a quick look yesterday and most don’t have an essay A level requirement. But she’ll need to take LNAT for many of top ranked which requires a competitive essay plus multiple choice.

But that said if she’s turned off by essay subjects at A level, law is not degree for her. The undergraduate exams are still of the write several essays in 3 hours variety. Lots of written assignments. There’s a reason lots of law undergraduates have history A level as the skills are highly relevant to law. So if research, analysis etc isn’t her cup of tea then probably steer away from law undergraduate.

But STEM graduates are in demand for some areas of legal work so a science undergraduate and then conversion is an option, I’ve linked STEM lawyers website.

My latest graduate recruit in legal has history, physics and maths A levels and a 2.1 law degree from a top 5 uni. A mix of science and one humanities at A level would leave all options on table.

History Physics and Maths wouldn’t keep
options open for Medicine - the reverse.

I know that. But op says her dc’s certain choices are Biology, Chemistry and one other. I meant those two plus a humanity like history would keep law and medicine as options going into 6th form.

FYI, barristers write opinions but (commercial) solicitors less so. If there is heavy duty research and opinion writing to do whether for a litigation or novel area of law, the solicitors can instruct barristers for that.

However the study of law IS research, analytical and writing based. So OP's dd will have to get past that hurdle.

Nothing wrong with OP's dd studying medicine and if she still wants to do law, do a conversion course at that point. The conversion course is only one year (I think) so bearable.

It continues to be challenging to get training contracts at a solicitors firm. Must be even more difficult to get pupillage at a barristers firm.

Interesting… biology, chemistry and history just seem, well, a mixed bag

Quite a lot of medicine applicants have this combination. Psychology is much more common but we do see a fair number of applicants with history.

I don't like A-Levels as qualifications, partly because they're too narrow and partly because they are far too exam-focused. I think there is considerable value in having a humanities or behavioural/social science subject alongside sciences.

@blueshoes That’s a very very expensive route to converting to law! After a medical degree. Barristers need one year post conversion too. I just think not liking analysis and essays isn’t the best starting point for Law.

My advice would be chemistry, biology and history. Keeps options open for both and develops a wide range of skills.

Commercial and corporate Solicitors write notes to clients all the time and apply the law, regulation and its practice to the circumstances of the transaction being contemplated. You make it sound like commercial solicitors go straight off to barristers if they don’t know what the law is. In reality it’s often a double checking or insurance exercise, certainly in the good firms anyway. I agree with @TizerorFizz , law is not for people who don’t like writing essays (not least, as pointed out above, because the degree and exams consists of writing essays and long form answers to questions).

I admit I am only speaking for my transactional area of commercial law (M&A, capital markets and banking - though banking has more law because it involves the legalities of taking effective security) where it is more drafting and negotiation rather than advisory or regulation. I suppose if there is law, the transactional teams will go to the advisory/regulatory teams within the firm first and only if it is precedent setting (as in basing a whole new financial product on an interpretation of the law) go to counsel for insurance.

I am not disagreeing with you. I have only worked in 'good firms' which tend to specialise but thanks for the dig.

I did Chemistry, Biology, Maths and English Lit. Wanted to keep my options open for medicine and law, ended up doing law (jurisprudence) at Oxford. I agree with others saying that if she doesn’t like essays then a law undergrad degree maybe isn’t for her - 3 essays every two weeks at Oxford when I was there.

Does she know what area of law she is interested in? There are some interesting options with a science undergrad and then conversion. I know IP barristers and solicitors who started off in science.

Yes that was y suggestion to the OP but her DD seems not to want to do four A levels.

Some schools won’t allow a 4th A level except further maths so it may be a school requirement not the girl’s choice to do 3 not 4. My dc’s state grammar had this policy.

@Cakeandusername 3 is fairly standard in the grammars I know if no FM included. I’ve seen some do FM and M when they are 2 of 3. If putting them with Physics or Chemistry, choice of a university might not be elite but it won’t make any difference to the next tier down for Physics, Engineering or Chemistry if grades are high.

It’s standard at grammars these days, since the changes to the specs, but schools will almost always make exceptions for high achievers with a good reason to do four, especially if they don’t want to do the EPQ.

It used to be standard at our grammar to do four plus General Studies, Critical Thinking and the EPQ but there was a revision when AS levels were discontinued. Even so, high achievers can opt for four if they want to and if timetabling allows. Occasionally some self teach for subjects not offered in house.

That said, didn’t the student with a crazy number of A levels get rejected by Oxford this year (think that’s what I heard), so that’s a cautionary tale (if correct). But it would make sense to do four but no EPQ in a case like this, to leave options open. Indeed possibly with a view to giving one subject up if the workload seems too much and once a decision about uni application has been made (probably without mentioning that get out plan to the school :)).

Yes: applied for Medicine at Oxford in the 2025 offer round. 28 A levels and 34 GCSEs according to the BBC. Grammar school student.

A scattergun approach and I suspect her interview wasn't good. Clearly incredibly bright, but maybe unable to interview well. I wonder where she ended up.

@Auchencar Did that pupil have time to develop as a young person? Make mistakes and learn from them? Have conversations and some interesting down time to develop as a human being? It seems a very one sided life of devotion to academics and the required curricula but maybe that is not allowing spontaneity, the development of interpersonal relationships and critical thinking to mature?

Ds did History, Psychology and Philosophy.

No idea. It seemed a spectacularly bad idea from the outset, to my mind. If you’re genuinely a polymath why not explore subjects independently rather than be confined by exam specifications? I’m astonished that her (excellent) school went along with it.

I would think there’s a strong chance that she’ll try for Cambridge in the coming application round - that would be a well worn route. The BBC quoted the young person as saying Imperial would be her second choice but I doubt that she thought Oxford would say no, with that many top grades.