To be or not to be a doctor?

[MrsDThaskala]

DD said today that she’s been in thinking about becoming a doctor. Not sure what area, not sure what kind, just said it out of the blue today. I mean she’s doing well in her sciences. But quite honestly, the doctors I know, GP and hospital doctors, and a surgeon always say how stressed they are, how much pressure hospitals are under, how hard medical school is….etc. not necessarily for my DD but what do you think? With all that we know about the NHS right now, what’s your take on becoming a doctor?

I think that's it, isn't it? Nothing else will tick the box for some people. That is very much how my dd feels. And thank goodness there are people who feel that way.

I do have concerns around the road ahead, but ultimately it is what dd has chosen and I respect that choice.

Yes, me too, I have huge respect and a sense of awe sometimes. Life vs death is literally in their hands.

I feel sad hearing this. I completely get it though.

so if not a doctor… what else? If it’s medicine, sciences, respect, helping people, money, what else is there? Is there another ‘medical’ route? I thought of a dentist. What about embryologists? Anethetists? I’m not sure which is why I ask.

Dentistry is much easier to practice privately in the UK and it's a fascinating area of healthcare that, together with nutrition, is gradually moving to a place where it is recognised as absolutely central to health throughout life. There has been a lot of progress in understanding the role of the mouth, of facial growth, of breathing etc in the physical development of children.

I think a lot will come down to what your dd actually wants, OP.

If she is dead set on medicine, then the idea of dentistry probably won't cut it. It certainly wouldn't have done for my dd.

If she isn't dead set on it, she'll probably be put off by the application process in any case. It isn't for the fainthearted!

Anaesthetists are doctors by the way.

Some dentists are leaning towards holistic medicine in a way that cannot be practised in the bureaucratic and pharma-led NHS. My DH had an accident several years ago and snapped his Achilles tendon. Several months later his dentist was the one to diagnose an asymmetry in his mouth and refer him to an osteopath who set him on the path to proper rehabilitation after his operation.

@MrsDThaskalamy DD is currently an F2 and loves her job. Yes it’s hard, the hours are long and the pay a bit rubbish, but she loves it still. She’s got into training so it can be done and she also had a job in Australia.

The NHS is a mess but things might improve and your DD is over 5 years off joining it. It’s a great degree anyway and Uni seems fun (v hard work too).

Thank you. We have dentists in the family so I think this is where her interests began. But the out of the blue Doctor comment got us all thinking. I totally agree.

www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/british-doctors-chasing-jobs-will-get-priority-over-foreigners-xbs0vl90m#:~:text=Doctors%20who%20trained%20in%20Britain,to%20come%20to%20this%20country.

All these comments about how wonderful Australia is! They don’t have a NHS do they?! They fund health care differently. Here we plough money into the NHS and no one is happy.

Patients are not grateful enough (not sure they should be for poor service) doctors don’t like their pay but earn more than nearly everyone else in the nhs, and go on strike. If Australia produces a gold standard health system, why don’t we copy them? Why are the doctors so rigidly against change? Why do doctors not say we need to change? Many of us feel let down by doctors and the nhs and clearly doctors like the Australian system and don’t care that it’s not a NHS. Here we don’t hear them campaigning for Australian style health care. Why no? Why not lobby for change here instead of being part of the failing NHS? Too many left wing doctors with no solutions other than strikes is what it looks like.

My Dd is also very happy in her career in medicine, currently in her 4th year post graduation and on the training contract she wanted.

She had decided on medicine at around the age of 14/15. My heart dropped when she said it, not because I didn't think it would be a good career, but because it is so competitive to get a place. Luckily she did.

I have a friend who wanted to do medicine from a similar age to my Dd, 40 years ago. She got persuaded by the negativity of others to do something else instead, but quickly realised she had made a mistake so dropped out of that course and reapplied for medicine for the following year.

Really ? You’ve not heard doctors advocate for a better system ? You can’t know many as majority of ones I talk to think there are much better models out there. Doctors would be just better paid in them !

Left wing mumsnetters seem to want a race to the bottom where all are equally impoverished with a third world healthcare system, and the current bottom-of-the-league cancer survival stats we have.

There really is another way!
There are many successful healthcare systems in the developed world (and I certainly DON’T mean the US which is horrendous).

Time to embrace one.

That’s up to the politicians you vote in. Not the medical staff.

It’s not the doctors/ HC professionals on the front face that are to blame. They all started off keen and full of joys…. It’s the system that’s worn them down. And the system is failing on all levels, education, training, contracts, there’s nothing that’s good.
There’s no way I’d do what I do again!

I know a lot of doctors and every single one says they wouldn’t do it again if they could go back. The dentists i know have a much better work life balance. would she be interested in that?

I think @TizerorFizz is showing that she is not fully familiar with the issues affecting doctors. Her engineering advice is ok but she has little grasp of the complex issues affecting the NHS staff and workforce.

Her statement 'doctors don’t like their pay but earn more than nearly everyone else in the nhs' is incorrect. PAs and many in other NHS roles earn more than many resident doctors. Her statements 'Why are the doctors so rigidly against change? Why do doctors not say we need to change?' again are incorrect. Doctors do want change. That's what they've been asking for. Better working conditions and training positions beyond medical school so that they can deliver quality healthcare and diagnose, treat and manage patients safely. Strange to assume also that everyone that strikes is left wing.

As lovely as Australia is, I don't think that campaigning for an Australian style healthcare system is the answer to tackle the current issues in the NHS while keeping it accessible to all who need it.

Pharmacy is what she should go into. Being a doctor is hell these days. Pharmacy will use her science skills but will mean a happy life with little pressure and great financial rewards. All docs are envious of pharmacists.

Look at the hourly pay of nhs pharmacists!
For the amount of education and responsibility it’s appalling.

Sorry, I'm going by pharmacists in Ireland. They basically print money

Have a look at optometrymaybe? I heard it was a pretty good alternative and lucrative. I used to have an optometrist acquaintance. She had a horse and a Aston martin, seems pretty good to me??

It is amazing how quickly it has become a low pay low status job with few prospects of employment in the uk for Uk students. I would counsel any kid against going to med school in the uk. If they have a European/other passport then they would be advised to study and work in medicine abroad.

I am doctor (hospital consultant). I was naturally drawn to my specialty, which turned out to a be wise choice. Patient management depends hugely only what I do. I will always know I made a difference to many many people. They may never know who I am, but I know what I have done.
I would make the same choice again.

Would I advise my DC to do the same again? It all depends on how ridiculous the hoops they will be made to jump through and if, after proving themselves, they would be able to secure a job with relative ease. After all, either the UK training programme is fit for purpose or it is not.
And if the graduates and resident doctors cannot get jobs then what are tax payers and current hospital consultants spending their money and time on?

Sorry but if you are genuinely interested in medicine then optometry etc may not provide challenges that medicine does - I don’t mean to come across as a snob or superior, apologies if I do. Optometry obviously provides a valuable service.

Medicine is so broad, so challenging, you work with a huge number of specialists, manage complex cases, difficult patients/relatives, abuse, neglect, poverty, emergencies (some catastrophic, the-all hands-on-deck-type - several of you standing on chairs manually squeezing bags of blood into a patient as it hemorrhages out just as fast, making split second best interest decisions), patients lives are saved/prolonged/palliated/lost.

My sibling is a doctor and my children have a cousin starting medicine in September (post A level so the place is assured).. I think it is a very good career. I am a lawyer with 4 lawyer children too but my father (consultant psychiatrist) and uncle were doctors so I see us as much a medicine family as a legal one. I certainly would not put anyone off and would have been equally happy had my children chosen medicine instead of law.

Anything worth doing is hard and medicine gives a vast amount of choices and opportunities. My father even worked full time to age 77 as he could sit on mental health tribunals until fairly old and do medical expert court work (the NHS in those days required him to resign at 63 even if he did not wan to) and he had private patient clinics too and always did a lot of lecturing as well. In other words as like in my profession law if you work very hard full time there are loads of different things you can do that are interesting and well paid. If you do not like blood and cuts you can specialise - as I say my late father was a psychiatrist.

You often find it is people who are unhappy who moan in any profession - it is the same in law. Yet loads of us love these professions but perhaps are too busy or too content to moan about our work.