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Higher education

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State school kids at Edinburgh university- how bad is it for them?

242 replies

StartingAgainFGS · 05/04/2025 22:35

I keep hearing reports of state school kids not fitting in at Edinburgh uni (at best) and at worst some real bullying going on. Heard it described on here as "pony club bullying". We are very far away from the private school demographic and I wonder how my DD would cope. We would be scraping by to send her there in the first place and I would not like her to feel so out of place that she's uncomfortable/unhappy.
Are these reports exaggerated? Does anyone have a state school DC there?
Thanks!

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 19/04/2025 23:27

The thing that makes me feel a bit irritated during these threads, is the fact that most state educated students at unis like Edinburgh, St As, Durham etc which are discussed as having large numbers of posh or privately educated students, are overwhelmingly middle class - not working class.

On MN there are frequent discussions about state school students and uni and about concerns parents and kids have about fitting in. But most of these are middle class families. Their parents often do similar jobs to those who went to private schools and often live in similar areas and quite often in larger houses. The discussion seems to focus on the privately educated being different, or the state educated feeling different. But often most of their parents are mostly uni educated, they have had many extra curricular opportunities and play music and sport and have done well academically. They have many similarities …but the focus seems to be on difference and the independent kids as different. Uni is new for them all and most settle fairly quickly and make friends and have a good time and go into be successful.

Isnt the reality, that it’s much more likely to be the working class students , especially those from low income backgrounds, who find it tougher - and they really are still small numbers at top unis. They can be the ones who have had more different lives to the middle class majority. They are the ones who might find their cultural experiences growing up have been different if their families and communities have little experience of or aspiration towards uni, and feel more different when they find themselves in communities of students who have mostly always considered uni likely.

Honestly I don’t think it’s about state school vs independent. It’s about class and expectations growing up. But sometimes on MN middle class state educated families seem to develop fears and concerns about the independently educated and see barriers that probably don’t really exist between their own middle class kids and the more similar than they think indecently educated middle clsss. Somehow they seem to view their state education as a barrier or that the independent education some have had as a barrier. They forget that their own kids have had privilege in their lives too in many ways. Many have been to god state schools and many have had interested parents who promoted education and other activities and grew up with others around who valued the same. These are privileges that are common to the majority of students at top unus, regardless of their school types.

But somehow the parents of those who genuinely might feel like fish out of water, aren’t on these threads…just the comfortably off.

TizerorFizz · 19/04/2025 23:42

@WombatChocolate I didn’t go to university. I wasn’t expected to go either. It’s not necessarily a class issue. Low expectations can be exhibited anywhere. I also wanted to earn money immediately as we didn’t have any! Working class people had more than we did. Family attitudes matter. Not perceived class.

Many working class from my school days at grammar school are now solidly middle class through education and work. They didn’t wallow in working class roots. Now people say they are working class but they are not. They have left that behind. We also need to accept that if people haven’t dragged themselves up by now, maybe they are families that don’t grasp opportunities? Not everyone actually wants to be upwardly mobile either. They might be perfectly happy!

TheSixQuarks · 20/04/2025 10:28

@WombatChocolateagree entirely

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 15:52

I think nuance is so often lost on these threads which is what is happening here, again.

There's a subset of privately educated young people that are present at certain unis (Edinburgh being one) that mock others that aren’t in their subset that they deem inferior. These will be state educated young people, often with a local accent.

No one is suggesting all privately educated young people are part of this subset. These majority of state educated young people will likely be friends with privately educated young people who aren’t part of this subset. It’s irrelevant to all concerned where any of them went to school.

But to ignore the subset that do create issues is disingenuous.

StartingAgainFGS · 21/04/2025 17:34

And in terms of individual experience, I'm worried about my DD coming up against the subset!

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 21/04/2025 18:02

@RestitutionGranted Have you never heard the mocking of posh accents? You must have done! It’s really not one way as you suggest. Of course these dc are a subset too but neither are particularly pleasant.

@StartingAgainFGS I think you are far too invested in a tiny minority of students. What interest do a few students have in your DD? Why would the vast majority of decent students not be potential friends? I would also suggest DD needs her confidence building and not being told she’s different when she’s the majority. Why would she “come up against” anybody unless she’s being antagonistic herself and isn’t willing to be kind to others of course. Why the worry? It’s silly really.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 18:38

Do tell me if anyone has experienced a subset of state school educated young people at these “top” unis that have mocked posh people’s accents.

I wonder if it’s something that happens more at secondary school and perhaps these people don’t go to “top” unis but do correct me if I’m wrong?

MyDenimViewer · 21/04/2025 19:00

Grimbeorn · 05/04/2025 23:03

A significant element of posh kids (known as "the Yas" because they said "ya, ya" a lot) some years ago. May have changed now? Certainly much posher than eg Glasgow, and a significant proportion of these were posh English folk. Edinburgh seems much more popular with English students than Glasgow for some reason.

BUT all the people I knew who went there just rolled their eyes at the Yas, and found good friends who weren't posh. This was ten years ago to be fair, so it may have changed. But if it hasn't, I'd say you'll be fine. There's a mix of people like anywhere else; it's just that the mix is more biased towards posh, but non-posh people are there too!

This was my experience when I went there over 29 years ago.

Lazycatsitsonthemat · 21/04/2025 19:02

I had quite a few Yahs at my University. They stuck together and there wasn’t any friction. I had several in my corridor in Halls. They seemed like an alien species but it didn’t bother me or them . There wasn’t an issue .

LoobyLott · 21/04/2025 19:03

I met ONE boy at my RG university who had a problem with anyone who wasn't what he perceived as "working class". And if you dared so much as to utter that phrase, "working class" he'd eyeball you angrily and then never speak to you again.

There are odd-bods everywhere, with their own particular hang ups and peccadillos.

After uni I met another guy through work, who was from Manchester who didn't like anyone without a Manchester accent. Thought if you were from somewhere else you were automatically "posh" or entitled. And...didn't speak to you.

It's all just one enormous bore, whether you're mocking someone's South London accent or their Glasgow accent. And it limits further the perspective of the person making the assumptions and doing the mocking, as much as anything.

ViolasandViolets · 21/04/2025 19:28

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 18:38

Do tell me if anyone has experienced a subset of state school educated young people at these “top” unis that have mocked posh people’s accents.

I wonder if it’s something that happens more at secondary school and perhaps these people don’t go to “top” unis but do correct me if I’m wrong?

You could start by counting the number of posts on this thread referring to people as ‘rahs’ or ‘yahs’.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:06

ViolasandViolets · 21/04/2025 19:28

You could start by counting the number of posts on this thread referring to people as ‘rahs’ or ‘yahs’.

So do you have experience of a subset of state school young people mocking posh people’s accents at “top” unis?

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:10

LoobyLott · 21/04/2025 19:03

I met ONE boy at my RG university who had a problem with anyone who wasn't what he perceived as "working class". And if you dared so much as to utter that phrase, "working class" he'd eyeball you angrily and then never speak to you again.

There are odd-bods everywhere, with their own particular hang ups and peccadillos.

After uni I met another guy through work, who was from Manchester who didn't like anyone without a Manchester accent. Thought if you were from somewhere else you were automatically "posh" or entitled. And...didn't speak to you.

It's all just one enormous bore, whether you're mocking someone's South London accent or their Glasgow accent. And it limits further the perspective of the person making the assumptions and doing the mocking, as much as anything.

Thanks for this response. And agreed it is all boring and ridiculous, judging people on how they speak.

I suspect it is one off individuals that mock posh people’s accents at “top” unis rather than a whole subset of private school young people who mock state school students and poke fun at them for being “inferior”. As it sounds happens at Edinburgh and a handful of other unis where this subset attend.

WombatChocolate · 21/04/2025 20:14

I think this concern about ‘coming up against’ groups which are clearing causing concern suggests a lack of perspective from families - parents as well as students.

It is pretty common for teens to lack some self esteem and many feel worried about what everyone else thinks of them / other kids in their friendship group, other kids at their school, those in or their schools and then this extends to feelings that people from other towns or from different backgrounds are to be avoided - basically a desire to avoid anything unfamiliar.

Teens might naturally tend to this kind of thing, but it’s worrying when families and adults do too - when the expectation is that those who are different might be unpleasant or best avoided. It’s especially worrying when families exclude their kids from opportunities due to these concerns.

I’ve said it might be understandable from groups who have faced significant disadvantage, but it seems many of the relatively affluent middle class families have similar concerns and fears - and it can lead to kids limiting themselves to going to places where there are as few as possible if the group to be avoided. Of course we’d challenge this if about race or similar, but many think it’s best for young people to avoid ‘coming up against’ what will always be very small numbers, if we’re talking about the privately educated, who are also boarding school and also unpleasant to what must be the other 85% plus of student body.

As parents I think we need to help our kids broaden their horizons. They need to spend time with kids who aren’t at their school - scouts, sports teams, etc.

Perhaps as parents we need to model it too - or are we scared to mix with parents we perceive as different? Are we getting out there and showing it isn’t scary but okay?

And how do we respond to the odd situation which might not be ideal? If someone is a bit rude - do we go on about it and make it into a big thing? Do we show our kids that we dwell on it and get bitter, or that we might understand the reasons some people behave badly, that we shake it off and move on as a normal part of life?

I wonder if we are so keen to protect our beloved children that we don’t help them build resilience and help them get ready for the world, but try to keep them only in the familiar. I wonder if those concerned about their kids ‘coming up against’ what might be called the rahs, are also worried about making sure they avoid the ‘rough’ kids in the local area - or basically anyone who is a bit different to them.

I’m not denying that there will probably be some rather loud and insensitive rahs at top unis. Some will be unpleasant. Others might be perceived as such by those sensitive to them. Perhaps they lack confidence themselves? But are these institutions to be avoided by the great majority of state school applicants because of this? Should families encourage their kids away from these places and look only at places with the largest demographic ie themselves - because it feels like this is how some feel.

Uni is partly about branching out, trying new things and encountering new people and ideas. Of course some will be liked and embraced and others less so / it’s all part of it. Bullying is never acceptable and I’m sure it sometimes happens at uni. But are some students prejudiced against those who aren’t state educated and so perceive bad behaviour or bullying where it doesn’t always exist? Do some want to cling with those who aren’t state educated similar to themselves and avoid all others? It’s not good from any group.

ViolasandViolets · 21/04/2025 20:29

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:06

So do you have experience of a subset of state school young people mocking posh people’s accents at “top” unis?

Yes.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:30

WombatChocolate · 21/04/2025 20:14

I think this concern about ‘coming up against’ groups which are clearing causing concern suggests a lack of perspective from families - parents as well as students.

It is pretty common for teens to lack some self esteem and many feel worried about what everyone else thinks of them / other kids in their friendship group, other kids at their school, those in or their schools and then this extends to feelings that people from other towns or from different backgrounds are to be avoided - basically a desire to avoid anything unfamiliar.

Teens might naturally tend to this kind of thing, but it’s worrying when families and adults do too - when the expectation is that those who are different might be unpleasant or best avoided. It’s especially worrying when families exclude their kids from opportunities due to these concerns.

I’ve said it might be understandable from groups who have faced significant disadvantage, but it seems many of the relatively affluent middle class families have similar concerns and fears - and it can lead to kids limiting themselves to going to places where there are as few as possible if the group to be avoided. Of course we’d challenge this if about race or similar, but many think it’s best for young people to avoid ‘coming up against’ what will always be very small numbers, if we’re talking about the privately educated, who are also boarding school and also unpleasant to what must be the other 85% plus of student body.

As parents I think we need to help our kids broaden their horizons. They need to spend time with kids who aren’t at their school - scouts, sports teams, etc.

Perhaps as parents we need to model it too - or are we scared to mix with parents we perceive as different? Are we getting out there and showing it isn’t scary but okay?

And how do we respond to the odd situation which might not be ideal? If someone is a bit rude - do we go on about it and make it into a big thing? Do we show our kids that we dwell on it and get bitter, or that we might understand the reasons some people behave badly, that we shake it off and move on as a normal part of life?

I wonder if we are so keen to protect our beloved children that we don’t help them build resilience and help them get ready for the world, but try to keep them only in the familiar. I wonder if those concerned about their kids ‘coming up against’ what might be called the rahs, are also worried about making sure they avoid the ‘rough’ kids in the local area - or basically anyone who is a bit different to them.

I’m not denying that there will probably be some rather loud and insensitive rahs at top unis. Some will be unpleasant. Others might be perceived as such by those sensitive to them. Perhaps they lack confidence themselves? But are these institutions to be avoided by the great majority of state school applicants because of this? Should families encourage their kids away from these places and look only at places with the largest demographic ie themselves - because it feels like this is how some feel.

Uni is partly about branching out, trying new things and encountering new people and ideas. Of course some will be liked and embraced and others less so / it’s all part of it. Bullying is never acceptable and I’m sure it sometimes happens at uni. But are some students prejudiced against those who aren’t state educated and so perceive bad behaviour or bullying where it doesn’t always exist? Do some want to cling with those who aren’t state educated similar to themselves and avoid all others? It’s not good from any group.

Agree with most of this.

Perhaps it would be good too if parents didn’t avoid comprehensive state education for their children for fear of their children mixing with state school children who may present very differently to them. Maybe we should say it’s ok for them to be mocked and to find their tribe there.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:31

ViolasandViolets · 21/04/2025 20:29

Yes.

Ah do please expand. Interested to hear about this.

Livingbytheocean · 21/04/2025 20:53

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 20:31

Ah do please expand. Interested to hear about this.

How bloody repugnant, that you seem to be relishing with glee the prospect of hearing about more discrimination. Why don’t you try to expand your lazy stereotyping and reach beyond your bias my friend, and see if there is some humanity lurking somewhere inside of you.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 21:05

Livingbytheocean · 21/04/2025 20:53

How bloody repugnant, that you seem to be relishing with glee the prospect of hearing about more discrimination. Why don’t you try to expand your lazy stereotyping and reach beyond your bias my friend, and see if there is some humanity lurking somewhere inside of you.

Just not convinced sorry.

Livingbytheocean · 21/04/2025 21:15

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 21:05

Just not convinced sorry.

Well you live in an incredibly small and shallow world if you have never heard of inverted snobbery.

TizerorFizz · 21/04/2025 21:52

Student Room even has privately educated students thinking they should try and change what they sound like. Loads of posts on this. RP accent being “bland and unappealing” and it’s “sterile and without character”. Who needs this rubbish? It’s NO way to judge a person. We say not to judge a book by its cover. But students are brought up to think like this. Parenting should be about developing skills to navigate the whole world, not just a tiny slice of it in your narrow neighbourhood.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 22:00

Livingbytheocean · 21/04/2025 21:15

Well you live in an incredibly small and shallow world if you have never heard of inverted snobbery.

For sure I have. Just not ever heard of a group of state school kids doing this to private school kids at “top” unis before.

Happy to be corrected with facts.

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 22:01

TizerorFizz · 21/04/2025 21:52

Student Room even has privately educated students thinking they should try and change what they sound like. Loads of posts on this. RP accent being “bland and unappealing” and it’s “sterile and without character”. Who needs this rubbish? It’s NO way to judge a person. We say not to judge a book by its cover. But students are brought up to think like this. Parenting should be about developing skills to navigate the whole world, not just a tiny slice of it in your narrow neighbourhood.

Totally agree.

ChevronShoes · 21/04/2025 22:08

RestitutionGranted · 21/04/2025 18:38

Do tell me if anyone has experienced a subset of state school educated young people at these “top” unis that have mocked posh people’s accents.

I wonder if it’s something that happens more at secondary school and perhaps these people don’t go to “top” unis but do correct me if I’m wrong?

Ummm, the entire thread referring to posh people as the “yahs”?

Youlovelypeople · 21/04/2025 22:19

I went to Edinburgh university 35 years ago and it was fine but there was big difference in social mix depending on what type of degree you were doing. My degree was Geography and it was very mixed with the private school kids tending to be very outdoorsy types, everyone I can remember seemed very pleasant. DH did a STEM degree at Edinburgh and state school kids dominated (back then only Biology/Ecology appeared to have a significant number of kids with posh accents). Some of the arts degrees were very different though, I had also considered an English degree at Edinburgh and I think I would have found that a bit tricky as I wasn’t very outgoing back them and to be fair, it would have most probably been a “me” problem.

There was a very posh girl on one side of my room in Pollock and a Scottish girl (who is still one of my closest friends) on the other side. The posh girl did that “I didn’t know who the ‘Ken’ she kept talking about” thing about my friend so I take the point of the person above as I was also state school educated and wasn’t getting any of that. My friend was doing a STEM degree though and I don’t recall her talking about it. We didn’t really mix with the posh kids after Pollock and that was fine, just happened to make friends with others we had more in common with. It’s a big university.

DC is now doing a STEM degree at Edinburgh and is loving it. Has made friends with people from all around the world, none of them sound very posh (and there are quite a few state school kids from in and around Edinburgh) but that may still mean that there are fewer of the very posh kid as a % of the STEM courses compared to some of the arts subjects.