Medicine without chemistry A Level

[AlphaApple]

DD is in her first year of A Levels, Biology, Psychology and PE plus an EPQ. Studying is going well with As and A stars anticipated. She's always been interested in health related careers but after 2 days work experience at our local hospital is suddenly thinking medicine (having previously ruled it out). I understand without chemistry A level, options for medicine are limited.

Does anyone have any experience or advice? E.g. a foundation year or a university that doesn't require chemistry?

If she is in year 12, I’d speak to the school about catching up with chemistry alongside the other ones she is doing… even if have to take a gap year. Might be possible to do without chemistry if have physics or maths alongside biology but with only one science seems unlikely unless you find a medical course with an access year.

2nd article is just about surgeons. Many doctors are not surgeons. So a limited report for analysis.

@MeridaBraveyou don’t need chemistry A level to do medicine at 11 Unis.

For clarity, I was a (traditional) teaching hospital consultant for 25 years, an Honorary Senior lecturer for some of that time, a Director of Postgraduate Education, and an Educational and Clinical Supervisor. I haven't read all of @Auchencar 's posts but I agree with those that I have read.

There was a time when @mumsneedwine would have been right about choice of medical school making no difference but that was when there were fewer medical schools and numbers matched training and senior posts. Filtering occurred at the point of university entry when standards were very much higher than they are now.

There are substantially more graduates now with relatively little change in consultant and GP numbers, so filtering inevitably takes place early or mid career. For consultants this will get worse unless the current government drops its plan to shift resources into primary care.

In answer to the OP's question, if the child in question is in the top quintile and preferably top decile academically and for whatever reason has done the wrong A levels, then do a one year university course that prepares non-scientists for entry to a traditional medical school. The one with which I was familiar had a cut-off such that the top candidates were given automatic entry. Better to be filtered early than disappointed later, and better to have a strong understanding of basic science as possible.

It's very easy to cherry-pick points from the text to support your position but the findings are very clear and apply to a whole range of postgraduate assessments, not just surgical exams.

@Marchesmanbut the Uni is not taken into account when applying for Foundation or Speciality training. So how can it matter ? Also, if what you are saying is true, the GMC need to close over half current medical schools. Is that what you think ?

If she is in year 12, I’d speak to the school about catching up with chemistry alongside the other ones she is doing… even if have to take a gap year. Might be possible to do without chemistry if have physics or maths alongside biology but with only one science seems unlikely unless you find a medical course with an access year.

Please see https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/how-to-apply-to-medical-school-in-the-uk/entry-requirements?type=standard-entry-medicine.

The following did not require chemistry A-Level for 2025 entry. I believe there will be at least one more for 2026:

Anglia Ruskin
Bangor
Brunel
Dundee
East Anglia
Keele
Kent & Medway
Lancaster
Leicester
Manchester
Newcastle
Plymouth
Queen Mary University of London (Bart's & the London)
Sheffield
Southampton
Sunderland

Biology, psychology & PE would be accepted by:

East Anglia
Keele
Kent & Medway
Lancaster
Leicester
Manchester
Newcastle
Plymouth
Sheffield
Southampton

Ah but apparently going to these Unis will damage your life chances as a doctor 😂. I’m sure Manchester will be delighted to hear they are deemed rubbish by some consultants. 🙄

@mumsneedwine could you tell me where the remark about Manchester being rubbish was made by a consultant? Or are you getting cross in the face of facts and making things up again?

The problem in life is that if you don’t like the answers or the advice given, then we as humans have a tendency to ignore try to find argument that supports our own thinking.
@mumsneedwine you’ve very obviously worked out how to work the current med school application system, and that’s fine. The problem is that we’re ending up with more kids struggling, needing resits etc… Those applying/getting with lower grades or alternative subjects definitely have it harder.
And yes, I’m not worried about the background of my F3s but I do worry about their ability.
And 7 years in med school is absolutely nothing compared to how much is ahead…….I’ve done 30, and I’m still learning and being examined!

MrsMedic my posts can stand or fall on their own merit, or lack of merit. Anyone can claim they're anything on MN; there's no means of verification. Franky I tire of the big claims from posters when the substance of their posts suggest a distinct want of information and/ or expertise. Obviously several impressive posters have also said that they're consultants and their posts back that up - no quarrel whatsoever with that. But I'll do it my way thanks; no coyness here, merely a choice.

Further, if you check out the threads I linked to for titchy, you'll find the most outrageous sneering from more than one of the protagonists at anyone who makes any claim about themselves or their DC. So why would anyone want to open themselves up for puerile sneering? Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and UCL all slagged off. London slagged off for foundation training. Several posters who thought they were consultants of many years standing were told that they weren't after all, due to a 'lack of empathy' for a number of DC who appear not to have the get go to do what's required to progress because they prefer a work life balance (which they might be better advised to wait for rather than insisting on it now). The sneering went on and on. This is supposed to be a grown up forum but sometimes one has to wonder.

OK, the usual thread wrecking crew have arrived so I’m off. Pathetic but they seem to enjoy it. A consultant on here stated that any medical school not needing chemistry was not very good. V easy to read.

If you think lots of medical schools are rubbish and you are a doctor I hope you are lobbying the GMC to close them. Since they produce such rubbish doctors

The reason there are not enough jobs this year is simple. There are approx 13,000 jobs for speciality training. There are approx 11,000 UK graduates. and there are 20,000+ applicants from abroad you apply on the same footing, no need for NHS experience at all. That’s why. Nothing to do with the Uni.

All I try and do is groom students get into medicine. But the abuse is insane 🤦‍♀️

Groom 😜. Hopefully not 😂😂. Let’s go for help.

@littlemissprossecosorry I’m confused. What resits ? Medical school ones ? As these happen everywhere, even from ones with amazing A levels. If they’ve made it to F3 they are qualified doctors, who, if not good enough after 2 years training should really be struck off. However the trainers should take some responsibility for that too. A levels and exams do not make a good doctor - there are many other things required.

I thought you were "off"? 😂

I thought she was meant to be a teacher, but she's been spreading disinformation all afternoon. Makes you wonder.

And where exactly does the consultant say Manchester is rubbish? Accuracy is important.

@Marchesman I am really only asking about medical school entry requirements for now but thanks for your post. It would help if you say what you agree with about the other poster because there's been a wider range of opinions about a wide range of topics including (but not limited to):

• Don't even think about going to medical school without Chemistry
• Don't even think about going to medical school unless it's "top-tier"
• Lower-tier medical school graduates are definitely going to have shit careers

All of this lacks nuance. Surely if it was true then the system would have addressed it?

I also work in HE and I have seen the most astounding bullshit about university confidently spouted on MN (and in national newspapers) by people who are either pushing an agenda or ignore the inconvenient complexities of the system as a whole.

I've just skim read the first article, which could be summarised as "too many strong opinions, not enough evidence". Sounds like this thread!

The second article is about surgeons. And doesn't make a comment on the quality of a school, just saying that it's likely that their teaching emphasis is more or less likely to produce surgeons.

How do you define a 'traditional' medical school?

Manchester is PBL

@MrsMedic that isn't quite the same as a consultant sitting down and actually typing 'Manchester is rubbish'. And I don't believe that anyone has said that. However I do think that @mumsneedwine would like them to have said that.

I believe the point was that there were some posters on here who were suggesting on previous threads that PBL was inferior to a more traditional teaching approach.

Just to throw a spanner in!
I actually believe PBL has its place in med schools. But ultimately my individual opinion will never change things, it’s a shame but I’m resigned to having to accept that.
On a daily basis I simply do my best for both patients and young doctors, in a system which is not making things easy for anyone. Believe me if I could change things I would.
I do believe in training individuals to be the best doctors, not the best an individual can be. But the best there is.
The public truly need that, and that’s really all that matters