Ideal university for Medicine

[Kayt79]

DS is in Y12, and set on Medicine. He's been to a few open days already, but until he's done his UCAT next summer it's impossible to know where will be realistic to apply.

So, just out of interest, and putting aside entry requirements and "prestige", which would be your ideal universities for Medicine, based on the overall student experience?

Has any progress been made on insisting on the reinstatement of the Resident Labour Market Test, at least until the unemployed doctors get allocated positions in the NHS? This would help your DC be prioritised for specialist training jobs ahead of those coming from overseas?

Nope. Government don't seem to care.

So sorry to hear about your DD's position. Did follow your posts when your DD was in medical school as my eldest started medicine a few years later. Youngest wants to go too but I am nervous about this. How do you advise your current A level students? What do you say to them? Interested as I am hoping DC doesn't insist on medicine. If so, there's nothing I can do.
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I'm just asking questions mumsneedwine, that's literally the long and the short of it. Heavily publicised stats do often lie. And the £15 or whatever was edging that way so forgive cynicism based on that alone. But on another tack, the numbers seem to have very suddenly veered out of control, so that accounts for questions too. If the nearly one in five chance of getting on a training pathway after F2 is actually correct, then I'm 100% as horrified as you.

But your DD still has to hear back from her application and she seems to have done well so far, so no elevated reason to suggest she won't get a training post, especially if she's not set on a super competitive specialty or geographical area (reading between the lines here).

The current medical threads are overwhelmingly upbeat. I've skimmed over them and no mention of this issue at all. So the young people all seem to be sleepwalking into the problem. Although of course the issue might be solved five to six years hence.

Yes, my eldest is very positive about his placements in hospital but he is a couple of years away from graduating from medical school. DH and I don't have medical backgrounds but I have read about the issue of speciality training places. My youngest having listened to my eldest's experiences in medical school now seems keen on doing medicine. I can't discourage this if that's the degree he chooses but I don't want them to have difficulties further down the line in securing jobs. Just really hoping the government sorts this mess out! We haven't heard about this problem on the news so the general public is unaware. The news has covered the PA problem but not this! IMGs have always been part of the NHS and of course are welcome but it seems that after 2021 when the RLMT was abolished, the numbers of IMGs coming in ballooned. As usual, a plan of action for such an eventuality and the impact on UK trained medical students was not considered!

@AsTearsGoBy she might. But her friends who wanted IMT know they haven't even got an interview. Despite fantastic portfolios. So they are off to Australia/New Zealand. Applying for junior fellow jobs is impossible while working full time as they disappear due to 1,000 people applying in the first 24 hours.

mumsneedwine when do they hear about this year's interviews?

Depends on the speciality. Paeds hear 20th I think (no exam but lots of silly hoops to get points). Most get MSRA result early Feb but most have no set time line about when they tell you if you've made the next round, so no one knows.

IMT already know. DD knows no F2 who has been shortlisted.

It's 4.7:1 if everyone applied to one speciality.

Actually for 2024, from the numbers @mumsneedwine kindly provided, the ratio is below 3:1 for posts at CT1/ST1 level (26129 applicants, excluding very few applicants with more than 17 applications, for 9331 posts). In 2023, 20165 applicants for 9194 so ~2:1.
I am guessing ratio will be higher this year but certainly not 10:1 as suggested above.

sendsummer do you know the ratio for 2020 and/ or 2021? I'm trying to understand the reasons for the difference in availability for training posts which are behind the numbers.

So the BMA are wrong ? I really really wish we were wrong, it would be great if lower.

mumsneedwine the BMA were certainly a bit gauche with the claims for pay/ hour on the strike day placards. You seem to have bought into it but no junior doctor really did.

Oh dear god. Really ???? Yes, they went on strike for a bit of fun, because losing so much money was a laugh. Can you do maths ? I've shown how it was £15 an hour. V v v easy to calculate.

Believe what you want. Those of us seeing F2s facing unemployment know the reality, unfortunately. Every resident doctor (bit out of touch calling them junior) knows what is happening.

Yes I'm angry, our kids have taken on ££££ of debt, worked hard for years, and are repaid by being told they are not needed.

And are you in a position to speak for all junior doctors?

mumsneedwine hyperbole can be very annoying. I'm extremely good at maths as it happens and have credentials to prove it. Check out the caveats.

No. I'm using hyperbole because it seems to be the language some people here identify with :)

It must be nice to be in a position to be so glib about it :)

But even those holding up the placards and photographed in the press knew that the figure couldn't stand up to scrutiny.

I'm not glib but I like real numbers so as not to have a false drama llama debate.

@AsTearsGoBy Still using the FOI NHSE numbers that @mumsneedwine provided the link for.
2020, 13758 applicants for 8732 posts so ratio 1:6. 2020 was probably too early for the transition to many more IMG applicants from the change in SOL end of 2019. According to one source, 8507 graduated from UK medical school in 2018.
In 2022, 9140 UK graduate doctors (9331 CT1/ST1 posts available in 2024).
So increasing numbers of graduating medical students but, more significantly, increasing numbers of IMG applying for training posts. Obviously some applications will be speculative so competition ratio may be lower.

I agree with @mumsneedwine that the ratio is likely to increase further in 2025 but the BMA in her attached news release refers to numbers of applications, not of applicants,

I've taken some time to calm down. It hasn't worked.
As if today I don't know any UK trained F2s who have got into training. Not one. Despite all being fantastic doctors and doing loads to work towards their chosen speciality. But they haven't had an article published or spoken at an international conference (because they've been a bit busy). So not got enough 'points' to even get an interview.

See attached if not sure why this is happening.

Helpful @sendsummer ?

@AsTearsGoBy enough scrutiny for you to hold up ? They are paid hourly so an F1s rate was v clear to see. Not sure who you were listening to, but it wasn't doctors who knew what they were talking about.

There are some people who really don't want to see what's right in front of their faces. UK trained doctors have been shafted in pay and jobs.
'They need to repay us by staying in the NHS for 5/10 years' they say.
They'd love to. But it won't employ them.

Oh, and those of you thinking I'm OK,I'll go private, who do you think trains the private doctors of the future ? You can only train in the NHS. The IMGs tend to go home once reach consultant level.

I don’t know what to say.

It’s very depressing. I really wish The Guardian or a big newspaper would pick it up. It’s a national scandal and no one knows about it.

Without external scrutiny and pressure from elsewhere I can’t see much happening or let’s say it’ll be very slow…

The BMA could have done more.