Some universities will go bust thread 2

[GinForBreakfast]

Continuing as thread 1 has filled up.

@thing47 ’s argument importantly went well beyond that point: they were also saying that the way of learning and testing in A levels may not be best suited to some in comparison to university, and that A level grades may not fully reflect academic ability.

I was having this very conversation with an old school friend last week. She’d never been regarded as academic at school (A levels) - and our school was very academic - and struggled there, but when she went to university abroad she thrived and was on the Dean’s list, as it was a different way of learning and being assessed and doing only a main subject she really wanted to.

A levels are near as dammit based all on exams at the end of two years (apart from some specific topics with coursework). Whereas at university these days you can choose modules where you’re assessed in other ways. Which is much more like how work, er, works.

Oh, I so agree! The UK school exam system is bonkers. And yet we are so wedded to it.

I am not sure where the whole conversation about better unis and correlation to A level grades leaves the 4 ex students of mine at Beds and Buckingham with slews of A stars and As between them...

How did that happen?

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/student-visas-down-sixth-will-cause-challenges-some-universities#:~:text=Home%20Office%20statistics%20released%20today,the%20same%20point%20in%202023.

IfS summary analysis of the latest Home Office (NB today = last Thursday)

Home Office statistics released today show there were 17.1% (25,200) fewer applications for visas to study in the UK in August than in the same month last year. This continues the trend seen over recent months, with 16.6% (55,500) fewer total applications in the year to date than at the same point in 2023.

The IfS also observe

The sector as a whole appears to be in reasonable financial health. In a recent report, we estimated that while a fifth of English universities posted deficits in 2022-23 (after adjusting for one-off pension costs), these deficits remained relatively small compared with providers’ net assets.

and go on the reflect on home applications

However, recent UCAS data show that less selective universities had received 19,200 (2.5%) fewer applications from domestic students by the June deadline for the coming academic year, whereas applications to more selective providers held up much better. If these universities also find their international recruitment is more impacted by the curbs on dependant visas, they would face a bigger financial hit.

Though provide no specific details to back up some of their generalisations.

It's where they applied and wanted to go!

Providers "net assets" so land and buildings...

You can't employ staff with that.

Indeed. Hence my generalisation comment - which I probably should have expanded on. Bit disappointing from the IfS tbh.

Haven't read previous thread and may have been mentioned by others like me who work in the HE sector but the major concern we have isn't going bust, it's the huge number of staff that will soon be leaving on the VS scheme.

I can't imagine it won't have a significant impact both on students and our own mental health. More than half of the Wellbeing team are leaving alongside significant chunks of academic and professional services teams.

My own DS has started at uni this year and I've struggled with him going because I know how challenging it will be for staff and students this year.

We're obviously not able to fill the posts of those that are taking redundancy and everyone that has requested VS has been granted it. Scary times.

@Piggywaspushed They obviously weren’t interested in social mobility, or didn’t need toto be, and didn’t push themselves I’m afraid. Where did they get advice from? This is why social mobility stalls. They will probably find students with CC at A level getting firsts. Employers sometimes do wonder why candidates don’t try harder and could think these unis in the bottom 10% in the country are an odd choice. Some degrees like nursing it won’t matter but others are well below what they could have achieved - all degrees are not equal!

There were significant personal and /or health reasons. My point is merely that we shouldn't stereotype all students at lower tariff universities as being less able. Many have back stories and often students who stay local have financial or personal reasons. For some young people , their local uni is a high ranking RG superstar; for others it may well be different - but the best place for their needs.

My point is that not everyone wants to , or is able to, leave home.

It's really common to attend your local uni in Scotland - perhaps that's why there isn't so much snobbery or differentiation between them all amongst Scots.

One of the aforementioned students has now graduated with a first and has secured a role at a major publishing firm.

Here in NI it seems a lot of young people stay local. We have a small population and a choice of two universities, plus our fees are cheaper. Once you consider the costs of travelling back and forth to GB, I can see why financially it makes sense to stay at home.

Exactly this. I had As at A level and went to my local, crap ex-poly (and had a terrible experience) but I had no family or financial support (even though my fees were paid for me and full loans etc) and actually didn't even understand the concept of good universities vs. bad as my FE college just encouraged us to go to said local, crap ex-poly.

I've actually ended up working in HE in professional services and my first job in HE was at a russell group University and it was very eye opening for me, I'd previously had no exposure to the middle classes with my council estate upbringing. I think had I went to one back then I may not have lasted.

There is more to it in that NI students don't have access to the equivalent of SFE, so you need to be relatively affluent to afford to study elsewhere.

(With apologies - currently reading a book by a Queens academic about NI post agreement) This is leading to some interesting changes. Whereas in the past Catholics were less likely to go to University and Queens, as the equivalent to Trinity Dublin, was predominantly Protestant. Now Catholics are in the majority with larger number of Protestants choosing to study in Scotland or England, often staying for the better salaries and greater opportunities. (ROI Universities can be harder to access to not only because Dublin is expensive but also because of their different selection techniques geared to the Irish leaving cert.)

A university friend of DDs was an exception. A very high achiever from a less well off background (lots of "first in her family, first in her school") her extended family clubbed together to help her study in Britain because of concern that she might be disadvantaged by on-going sectarian tension.

NI is lucky though because both Universities are well regarded and benefit from NIs strong school education system.

I had a friend form NI in first year at uni (England). He went back to NI after a term , terrible homesickness and missing God.

Does God not visit England?

Exactly. I think posters like tizer and Xenia have no idea just how many 18 year olds cannot move away for university - MH, ASD, disabilities, poverty, caring responsibilities, care experienced.

It's really not as simple as 'get the best A levels you can and move away to the best RG uni you can get into.' The phrase 'check your privilege' springs to mind.

Disabled students alone make up 16% of young undergrads in England.

Piggy, appropriate. The University quarter in Belfast where most Queens students live is called the Holylands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holyland(Belfast)

I understand, from someone younger than me, that St Patricks day in the Holylands is real craic.

Could someone explain how St Andrews have clinbed the ranks? When I entered uni over 29 years ago it was a place to go when no one else would have you.......

Indeed. "Local", "low ranking" universities can often contribute far more to social mobility than RG, and closing them will reduce access to HE for those who can't move in order to study for a degree.

Was it because they took some thick royals?

It's really not as simple as 'get the best A levels you can and move away to the best RG uni you can get into.' The phrase 'check your privilege' springs to mind.

Exactly. If only it were that simple.

Not the right one...

@GinForBreakfast How is a uni ranked in the bottom 10% make a difference to dc with regards to social mobility when DC have top grades? They might for a few others but RG plus gives best mobility as looked into by IFS.

Bucks and Luton aren’t in the same county. As Piggy teaches, these unis could not have been local to both of her students. Also loans do make it possible for the less privileged to move away as does work opportunity. Of course religion and family stop some moving but that is not the same as choosing a uni. Many dc will move heaven and earth to get a top tier uni, I perfectly understand the stay local mentality m(I just don’t agree with it) but unless we advise on aiming high, we won’t change much. The Sutton Trust is all about this but no one listens or advises in schools it appears.

Holylands were notorious back in my day at Queens ( many years ago)