Some universities will go bust thread 2

[GinForBreakfast]

Continuing as thread 1 has filled up.

On a slightly different point but I do think there used to be an issue- I caught the bus yesterday as the uni here in Bath ( Bath uni) is just around the corner. It was clearly on this bus 90% students from Malaysia, Singapore , China, Korea or India etc on this bus. Im all for plenty of internationalism but it seems really overseas students heavy here at the moment ( I've noticed it in Town too) and I can't help but wonder if lots of top grade home students aren't getting places simply because all these foreign students are paying more? I may be totally wrong but I can't help but wonder if this is going on if they are strapped on funding and that's very off

International students are treated very differently to home students. We have different recruitment targets which means international students aren't taking places from uk students!

I can't help but wonder if lots of top grade home students aren't getting places simply because all these foreign students are paying more? I may be totally wrong

Er, yes you are wrong. We have different quotas/targets for Home and International Students. International students do NOT take up Home student places.

In fact, International students subsidise Home students hugely.

What we charge International students is much nearer the real cost of an undergraduate degree than the amount paid by Home students.

@Crikeyalmighty At my uni, undergraduate degrees are largely filled with home students while masters degrees are largely filled with international students. The international students therefore don't take undergraduate places from the home students. They do subsidise them though.

30% of Bath students are international. Probably more than half their postgrads and maybe a fifth of their undergrads.

Thank you for putting me right ladies- it may well be we have lots of masters students here - it did cross my mind that surely there are some kind of 'targets' - I was just a bit concerned if it had the 'highest payer gets' kind of thing going on as there seems to be a very big visible increase in overseas students I've noticed in last few weeks-

What an awful statement. If you said this about any other group than white working class boys you’d be kicked off this site and rightly so.

I think this is a really common misconception!
It certainly is in my university city so you're not alone!

and its probably worth adding that Bath Uni have added around 2,500 undergrads to the student body as compared with the 2014/15 academic year position. With a very clear majority of those - almost 2,100 - being Home (ie UK) students.

Interestingly almost all the PG increase at Bath has also been Home students.

It's probably the opposite @Crikeyalmighty, the higher fees from international students are subsidising the home students.

I really dislike the word subsidise here. It implies our home students owe some gratitude to overseas students. It's not the fault of our students that the government don't pay enough to universities to cover the costs of running a degree course.

Overseas students are charged more - like they are in many other countries - and that income stream is vital for the university, in the same way any other income stream is useful for the university to balance its books.

Well, yes perhaps tow 'pots'.

But on one course at an esteemed uni - won't mention names - with data available on intake, it was blatantly clear that the percentage of international offered was much higher than for the UK home students column. The split was 80% international/20% UK despite knowing that several UK students had higher than entry grades.

Probably ways to justify taking the international students to make more money, I should think.

This afternoon’s pending announcement……watch this space.

Tuition fees to rise.

Too little, too late for some?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0qdgndz5wzt

Hmm but by so little that it will do almost nothing to make up for the huge drop in real funding over the last 8 years (or for the massive NI hike from last week). It will allow the government to say that they've given universities more money and now expect them to live in their means/do more with the money. The headlines around increased fees also risk putting off poorer students. Altogether I don't think it's good news.

Looking in from outside the sector it almost seems the case that today’s increase - such that it is - is a bit like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Or is that just a bit too cynical?

Just adding as I have to the other threads - not widely publicised is the DECREASE to classroom based foundation year fees by £4k from next autumn.

No, you are not cynical. As mentioned, the tuition is decreasing for a foundation year, and with the NI increases, drop in international students, and inflation, it isn’t enough to make a deal of difference. I mean, every little helps, but this is a little increase.

Heard on the radio (Radio 5 Live, Nicky - 15 minutes ago) a chap - didn't catch the person's name - say that he knows of 3 'prestigious' universities that are about to go bust but wouldn't name them.

York and Cardiff (Uni if not Met) both have challenges. Durham as a wild card.

Though whichever they are one hopes they can each work through it in the least damaging (to staff, students, town) way possible.

Yes, really hope so.

The Government cannot let top unis fail. It is like big banks. They will have to find a solution somehow.

What is the logic behind reducing fees for foundation courses? Surely that'll wipe out the money from raising the other fees.

York have had a voluntary severance scheme but have closed the compulsory redundancy scheme as it's no longer needed. We're definitely not about to go bust.

Id look at the "second" universities in a city or region, unless they had a specialism.

But I agree with others. No one will be allowed to publicly fail. There will be "mergers" instead.