To think that most degrees are a waste?

[Bellamari]

https://archive.ph/4PdgM

The author of the article has an undergraduate degree, two masters and a PhD. All totally useless in terms of getting a job.

I have to agree that the current high fees require students to consider education as an investment in a future job. They need to consider whether their degree will actually lead to a job - and if it doesn’t, then pick something else.

Schools and colleges (and society in general) are still telling people to “follow their passion”, but often this leads to an investment of 5-15 years and £50-150k, with no job at the end of it, and no time or money left to retrain in a field where there actually are jobs. PhDs in particular are a total waste considering the lack of jobs for most graduates.

Full disclosure - I’m one of those who was encouraged to follow my passion, do postgraduate degrees because I was so clever, and then left high and dry with no job prospects.

Is she double counting? Why do a masters,an Mphil and a PhD in the same subject?

@Coughsweet To try snd answer your question. Engineering undergrad degrees have two levels. BEng and MEng. MEng is 4 year undergrad. Mostly MEng grads (if staying in engineering) will expect to become Chartered Engineers via CPD and competencies laid down for each engineering discipline. If will take 3 years at least to do this so it’s about the same as being a doctor. A grad with solely BEng is going to take a heck of a long time to get chartered and will need a masters. Typically a BEng grad will become an Incorporated Engineer. That’s a grade lower. Generally you expect heads of departments and design teams to be chartered.

I suspect some companies don’t bother with this for their employees and some employees won’t bother either. DH’s company put a salary ceiling on the latter as leading a structural engineering design team wasn’t possible for them. Some so called engineering jobs are also low level and don’t require much in the way of qualifications. So employers look for a category of “engineer” (not a protected title like solicitor or Dr) they need for their business. Many won’t want all MEng grads. They need technicians as well. So recruit a mix.

I’m not sure that explains things. My DC has just started an MEng and has signed up for that from the beginning as it seems to be the case that to do so from the off will mean their fees including the masters year will be paid as long as they commit before reaching an BEng “stage” in their course (we’re in Scotland). The BEng has the same course entry requirements.

But other courses with the same name at other local universities have a much lower maths/no physics entrance requirement. I just had another look at the first institution where I’d noticed this and they also offer an undergraduate MEng, also on the same terms with lower maths requirement and no insistence of physics.

Well I have a Biology degree and did work in science for a few years after graduation but changed carees into programming. I worked in infection related IT systems and worked on some very high profile disease outbreaks so it's come in useful I guess.

Do I need my degree? Possibly not but I love science and I do feel I know more than the majority about biology which in turn came in handy during covid. I could be in a state of reality while my very young and fit friends was bleaching their shopping still 18 months later and asking me in a state of shock how I could be so flippant about my kids health risks.

Science is very important to me. It's almost like a religion and I count myself very lucky to study it at that debth from proper scientific legit sources.

The article isn’t loading for me any more so I can’t check, but isn’t her first degree from Oxford? Oxford, Cambridge and Dublin undergraduate degrees can be converted into the title “MA” 7 years after graduating, but they don’t count as true Master courses (you wouldn’t be able to get a place straight on a PhD course for example). The title is just a historical curiosity. That is why you are meant to say “MA Oxon” on your CV - to show it is an Oxford BA conversion not a true Masters.

Beyond that, staying in the same subject for Masters and PhD is pretty normal. Many Masters courses specify as an entry requirement you need an undergraduate degree in that subject or a very closely related one. At PhD level you are doing original research so need a very solid base of understanding. Obviously it’s different if it is a Masters where an undergraduate degree doesn’t exist or is very rare.

@BumpyaDaisyevna

Graduates applying to companies/organisations who do blind recruitment do not refer to their 'college' activities or employment in their CV but instead may say 'I was employed by the Student Union bar' or ' I represented my sport at X level ' or ' I volunteered for xyz activity in my local community'

Not to mention name-blind recruitment, age, nationality etc. The Civil Service uses this method in its initial sifting process for example

It's designed to limit unconscious bias

I think it was Edinburgh.

Their degrees are MA too, they are called “Master of Arts” but are not the same as postgrad Masters- see this explanation here. Same at Glasgow, Aberdeen, St Andrews and Dundee.

https://www.blogs.ppls.ed.ac.uk/2019/03/14/english-ma-vs-scottish-ma/

@Coughsweet At lower tier unis there are not enough maths/physics A level candidates to go round. These courses end up in clearing and are very much bums on seats. My local college offers BEng in civil engineering. BCC with one being physics or maths. Says it’s developed along CE guidelines. Looking at the course specification detail - it’s not accredited. It says you could be designing bridges and dams! Realistically - probably not!

For engineering I would advise looking closely at course content. Loads of the courses are accredited but that really doesn’t tell you much about quality as the bar is fairly low. When these grads want to progress though, their horizons might be limited. If a local uni is near the foot of the league tables I would very much evaluate what you will learn. Look at Bristol or Sheffield and compare.