Some universities will go bust

[GinForBreakfast]

Reported in the Times today. It must be so worrying for students joining or returning in September/October.

My question is around the regulator, who knows where the issues are. What should they be telling students and when? It seems cruel, especially to young people, to withhold information. It has financial implications as well - people moving, paying deposits etc.

It's not a lecturer's job, or the university's, to provide career or internship opportunities for students.

Someone needs to tell their marketing department that, as most Uni's make a big song and dance on their websites, brochures and at Open days about their careers services. That makes it an inferred contract term that the Uni will provide support and advice re careers etc. They can't be allowed to get away with not providing what they have promised!

Eldest received advice in 2000. Middle one was headhunted in his final year which the university had organised 2002.

Youngest no help at all in 2022. He is luckily Pro active so applied for jobs himself and was working within three months.

What UK university offered zero careers support? I'd be really interested to know.

@ElephantGrey101 Lots of DC simply don’t bother to find out. If DC are doing a degree with a placement, unis have connections but often too many students looking for placements.

I think unis have expanded too much and many students do struggle to find their own placements and drop back to a standard degree. Those who get placements can then get a job on the back of it. It’s been the same for years. Unis simply don’t have enough placements.

I do not see what’s wrong with students applying for jobs. DH did and that was generations ago! Students needing so much hand holding is a new thing, Those who use their initiative and those who don’t. All unis have careers depts. Unis signpost what’s available. Do they say they will get you a job? That would be impossible. DD did a “ready for employment” course at uni and went to quite a few careers events, Plenty of signposting and good prep,

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms Article in today’s Graun.

My son has been waiting for details on how to pay admission fees for his masters degree. Nothing has come through so he emailed them on Tuesday. Yesterday they replied that they would let him know when they wanted payment. When he did his degree it was well organised and I made the first payment in August.

Is this normal, I'm worried now.

@justasking111 They have told him! He’s presumably 21, why are you worried? Do you think the course is pulled?

I find very few students use the services on offer. I have 2 office hours a week for example. Most years I get 2-3 students pop into the last hour of the year in a panic about assignments but no one turns up to the other 38 hours. I did have one overseas student who turned up every week for a term once. As a result he got bespoke advice about his assignment and we talked about career etc. That was on offer for everyone.

Let alone provide constant pastoral care and know which students are struggling mentally, as was mentioned upthread. The best we can do is signpost them to the correct support.

There are internal, automated systems now which pick up problematic attendance and students will then be called with offers of support. Given so many professional services staff have just been sacrificed (savagely, in some cases) to VS, it's possible some of these students will now fall through the net.

Lecturers are not counsellors. We are not in loco parentis. Of course we'll come to know students by name - albeit we don't even see some serial non-attenders from one term to the next. But we can't - with the best will in the world - keep tabs on issues experienced by so many students. We are reliant upon them to come to us for help, and if they do, we do our best to provide it. It's not always possible to preempt.

After reading the guardian article, somewhat. He's got a flat with his partner a train ride from the university. He has a good job, his employer has held his job open for him to work part time for the next three years.

If they drop the course he's in a real mess.

Masters degrees are not the courses that will be dropped. They are funded differently. It will be the less popular undergraduate courses that go.

Thanks for this reassurance.

This is sadly typical. Our very strong students feed back to their reps that they want more support even as the vast majority of staff office hours go unused and lecture attendance remains low since the pandemic. (Lectures are recorded).

Exactly what they want, that we would be willing to provide, remains a bit of a mystery. Supported mock exams that are essentially templates for the real thing would go down very well

I am sure a vicious cycle can develop. The atmosphere can get discouraging for everyone, especially dedicated students and lecturers

@poetryandwine Im sure it varies from course to course too. Some students won’t come out of their rooms if they don’t have to. In my view this lessens the course experience for everyone. I remember DD saying at graduation, she’d not seen some students on her degree!

I do think lots of students expect a lot of teaching. I remember a friend being disgusted that a RG Polics degree had around 6 hours a week contact time.Her DS found other things to do, That’s why I think joint degrees are better for breadth but she had not factored in anything else he was meant to do regarding his studies.

I also think the switched on use courses like Bristol First and get all the careers into, Others simply don’t and then moan. I strongly believe self starters do well and, if we are honest, the academics for lots of degrees doesn’t matter in the long run (excluding STEM) DD hasn’t regurgitated medieval French for a bit! The bigger goal was her career. Not the uni detail. Obviously for MN parents, that’s seen as odd.

Yes, she will of course when term starts.

Absolutely agree that university experience is largely in the hands of the individual student - it's there for the taking but you have to be proactive and motivated. A bit like work. Also agree that there is no point in going to a brick-and-mortar university if you just want to spend your time watching the recorded lectures in your room. There's plenty of online degree options for that.

It’s very weird.
My two dcs both say there is hardly anyone in lessons. Maybe 10 people when there should 100.
Both say it’s great because you get to ask the questions you want.
And both have commented that listening to the recording isn’t as easy as it looks, even at x2 😂
(2very different courses too)

Having said that, it seems that the level is lower than it used to be with fewer students getting marks for a 1st. And so many students failing some exams they had to review boundary 🫣🫣 (The exam was more or less the same than the previous year so it wasn’t harder)

My nephew’s school had three recent pupils who were all at Oxbridge give a talk to the school’s high fliers. None of them recommended Oxbridge - which was not what the school was wanting to hear!

He is luckily Pro active so applied for jobs himself

Ummm?

Agree with much of this, @TizerorFizz

I enjoyed teaching American students who had breadth requirements in their first two years and often a minor subject, for many of the same reasons we both think there is much to be said for Joint Hons Programmes

Having said that, a strong student with a love of learning is a special pleasure. The British, Single Hons system may be best suited to them.

Listening to the mood music this morning the use of the word unpalatable in relation to an increase in home tuition fees (in England) would seem to indicate that some form of increase, maybe to a headline figure that still starts with a 9, is increasingly likely.

Really? What is the point of a £749 or less increase though? That isn’t going to solve any financial problems. If they are going to raise the fees let it be a meaningful amount. £1500 at the very least surely.

Announcing an increase in fees now for September would be crap though.
Pupils make decisions based on what they know. Changing the rules so close to the start of the year is leaving little opportunities to decide what would be the best next step.

I agree. However we are talking a political rather than a necessarily practical decision.