Some universities will go bust

[GinForBreakfast]

Reported in the Times today. It must be so worrying for students joining or returning in September/October.

My question is around the regulator, who knows where the issues are. What should they be telling students and when? It seems cruel, especially to young people, to withhold information. It has financial implications as well - people moving, paying deposits etc.

I had been led to believe that "illegal" migrants were easy to identify as they always arrive by boat?

The odd thing is most UK students end up paying far more than £9250 per year for their tuition when they start paying it back as the Graduate Tax (branded as student loan) to a private company that is making lots of money off them.

Perhaps all that's actually happening is that students who were using their university course as a way to illegally migrate here and bring their families, are choosing not to do so? You think this is actually a bad thing?

@usernamealreadytaken very few of the overseas students I work with stay here beyond the graduate visa (if at all). They are engineering students and the job market here just isn't competitive compared to what they can earn elsewhere (many aim to end up in the Middle East after graduating where the wages vs cost of living are more attractive). They're masters students who are often older, more experienced and don't want to fuck off for a year leaving their spouses and children behind... so most students from the overseas feeder universities are going to Australia this year where their families are welcome. The European students are mostly staying in Europe.

Could we measure which universities are not doing so well by the National Student Satisfaction survey.
The bottom ten this year included University of London, Edinburgh University, SOAS and KCL.

Good point well made.

I'm also not convinced about the narrative of "failing" universities. The metrics used are deeply flawed.

@Tracker1234

I dont want to bail out these places. Lets look at other options.

I agree. Certainly shouldn't be bailing them out just to continue as Universities as they are now. Any "bail out" should be to convert them into technical/trade centres of excellence, the funding should be to convert existing buildings into more labs, practical skills teaching facilities, etc. Keep the admin/management buildings, social spaces, accommodation, etc., but massively expand the practical/skills courses on offer. If the taxpayer is going to have to pay billions to stop them collapsing completely, then we at least need the phoenix "universities" to concentrate on trades/manual/technical skills, both residential/degree courses AND shorter term and adult education part time courses.

No, that's just your bias. Far more arrive by planes, trains and automobiles. Many come legally, and then overstay their visas and become illegal, but people don't seem to mind as much because they are the "nice" ones.

That's my experience in the Humanities as well. These students put a helluva lot of resources into subsidising UK students' educations! They work bloody hard, and we have ways of working around deficiencies in written English - often students understand a lot more than they appear to.

I do not understand this hostility to international students in the UK parental population. They PAY for your DCs' educations. And they do not take your DCs' places. They keep universities open

Another big part of the problem in my view is that universities love to spend money and do not have a culture of value and efficiency. A lot of money is spent trying to appear that they are the best, large new flashy facilities, expensive travel and hotels etc etc.
I work in a UK university and I have travelled around Europe recently visiting colleagues and projects under my other job. It is noticeable how much more modest many of the European universities are - buildings which look like schools, simple and cheap coffee machine and lounge instead of cafe, rooms which are classrooms etc. Renting rooms in Europe from said universities was about 1/3 the cost of what my university rents rooms out to business for.
etc etc.
And, having had a son experience university this last few years, it is poor value for money in teaching terms. My other son was at college (who have half the funding) and he had a much better teaching and learning experience, more contact time, and a better overall experience from the college. Other son, along with 40% of his course, dropped from the masters to under grad they were so disappointed in the teaching & learning. But that same uni, who would not afford a replacement tutor or more time for teaching & learning, are happy to announce an investment of £millions into a refurbishment programme for perfectly functional buildings...

Is it any more okay because it's potentially only a small proportion?

news.sky.com/story/i-had-no-idea-how-life-would-be-inside-the-lives-of-those-who-overstay-their-visas-and-go-underground-12931042#:~:text=The%20most%20recent%20statistics%20available,visa%20expired%20in%20that%20period.

The Vice Chancellors salarys are shocking - some well over £500k PER YEAR!

The PP is right. They want to look good and money doesnt seem to be an issue.

We also need to assess just what these degrees are adding to overall employability. A large % of students NEVER pay back their fees because they earn too little. So why do a degree in the first place??

Personally I would love to see the trades being as important as media studies in some second rate university.

We had a huge expansion in the sector. Perhaps hhis is a natural and necessary ebbing back to keep the sector strong.

Not every university and course is if the highest calibre.

i Wouldn’t have thought Edinburgh would be one?

Id say it is likely to be those that have both been (1) reported as in trouble in 2022 and 2023 and (2) have NOT engaged in massive restructuring as yet.

The ones that have cut lots of courses and departments already are more likely to survive as they’ve already bitten the bullet. They should be more secure against collapse (though may still want to merge for additional security).

Please could someone post a link to the student satisfaction survey rankings.

They do. I did a masters over a decade ago at a red brick. I was the only UK student in a 50+ year. 95% we're from East Asia

*Is it any more okay because it's potentially only a small proportion?

news.sky.com/story/i-had-no-idea-how-life-would-be-inside-the-lives-of-those-who-overstay-their-visas-and-go-underground-12931042#:~:text=The%20most%20recent%20statistics%20available,visa%20expired%20in%20that%20period.*

According to that article, people overstaying tourist visas are a bigger problem. Shall we ban tourists while we're at it?

When I said very few stay on, I meant at all. Like I said, I work with engineers. Why would they stay here illegally when they can get a well paying job and a visa as a chartered engineer? They don't even want to stay here with proper sponsorship.

A friend’s daughter graduated from Edinburgh last year but only obtained the class of her degree, and certificate, months later because of strikes by academics delaying marking. Probably justified for them (not sure of the details) but very hard on young grads looking for work.

The main problem is he home fees structure . Raising tuition fees is not an option but £9k in 2012 is worth around £5.5k nowadays . International students were just a way to mitigate this income deficit for universities. International students are not the problem. They way we chose to fund degrees is the problem along with a plan for more than 50% of 18 year olds to go to university , with no thought of where that would lead in 10 years if tuition fees could not rise with inflation

How odd that the previous government which was obsessed about migrants and calling people illegal never said much about it. I don't recall the PM standing in front of a lecturn saying stop the planes for instance.

I understand one has to pay that kind of money for talent - see also the Post Office and Water Companies for other evidence of this.

You have to register with Times Higher Education (its free to register) in order to be able to see them.

According to that article, people overstaying tourist visas are a bigger problem. Shall we ban tourists while we're at it?

And guess the nationalities of most of these tourists who overstay their visas?

South African
Australian
New Zealanders

It's just another demotivator for students.
Youngest DD thinks she wants to do Primary teaching. She sees no point though in spending the best part of £50k to get a qualification for a modestly paid job.
Luckily the new teachers apprenticeship scheme is due to start in 2025 so she will take that route if it is what she wants to do.

Funnily enough we don't run a minority report - we can't stop people coming here legally because they might turn illegal after the come.