URGENT: How to help Dd Decide in next 2 weeks ???

[StripeyChina]

Dd has Autism, severe Dyslexia & Clinical Anxiety (poss ADHD but unmedicated).
Still requires a lot of support. Not yet independant re timetable, transport, cooking etc. Has had a gap year, volunteering at a local repair shop (special interest). MAY be offered part time paid work here (will know this week)
So, that seems the sensible route (plenty of home support) but shes watched her friends go to Uni & wants to go too. Shes seriously bright (seriously SEN too)

She applied to 3 Unis (5 courses). She has been offered a place on all 5.
MUST reply by 6 June or will lose places. But is paralysed by the 'hugeness' of it.
Because of her ASD, she finds it hard to know how she feels so wants to make the decision based on facts but is very anxious about it. As am I now!

We are in Scotland so if choose a Scottish Uni (#1 or 2) there are no fees to pay.

Uni #1: 90m away - commute not very practical (no car, poor public transport) Uni is average at best, poor experience with SEN support. Halls expensive & not great. Dd is not enthusiastic (unless it could be combined with the 'job' above?)

Uni #2: is the 'sensible' choice. Outstanding Uni reputation. Doing a subject that she is good at (previous good exam results & a private passion for plus highly employable too). But she isn't sure he wants to study it at Uni. She doesnt' much like the Uni, doesn't like the Town or the Halls. So, shes 'probably going there as its the sensible & Best one'. But there is no sense of excitement at all.

Uni #3: is the wild card. It's in London. So, FEES. It's a much wider course at a fairly new place (London Interdisciplinary School). Dd is much more nervous about the course material (as it's a very broad based curriculum & fairly open ended - seems to attract a lot of confident students?). BUT is also excited about it. Very excited about living in London. Likes the accomodation (can stay 3 yrs).
There are only around 60 students in the cohort, all studying the same degree, so it would be much smaller & easier to get to know students & staff. They seem to 'get' her already & have been very friendly (plus there might be a bursary!)

Right thats enough of an essay to start with (didnt' want to drip feed).
I think she might need actual straightforward advice at this point.

Can anyone help me think it through please?

I hate to say it but as the parent of a first year at uni with ADHD and autism Id be worried that she doesn't yet have the coping skills. DS needs "reminding" about stuff all the time and despite having DSA and recognition by his university of his issues he's managed to get a grade reduction on every single essay so far for late submission (most of them only by something like ten minutes) by not being organised etc. He's coping well with feeding himself, shopping, cleaning, travel though. I'd be pushing her towards university number two if she really really doesn't want to delay again.

don't worry about it looking like there are no catered halls left. Loads of people will miss their offers so places will come up.

ds2 had a similar dilemma last year (also diagnosed ASC and with social anxiety). He chose to go with his "heart" rather than listening to me and going with the closer, lower ranked, university where he could have continued to live at home. For him it has worked out OK. I think maybe he needed me not being around to gain his own independence in terms of shopping & cooking for himself and waking up for lectures! Having said that he knows we are close enough (just over an hour) to rescue if need be.

My sister has twins in their second year of university. One at Newcastle and one in London.

The halls in first year were £4800 for Newcastle and £13,900 for London.

The halls in first year were £4800 for Newcastle and £13,900 for London

Wow! Actually swore when I read that. The full loan isn't even that much!

DSA will fund taxis.

My DD has it funded.

I know! She works while she is there but still. And she has transport costs whereas my nephew can walk to university and is he is living in the city centre. His nearest shop in John Lewis.

I just texted my sister to ask what their rents are this year now they are not in halls. One is £106 a week and one is £325 a week.

Is that taxis to lectures? Didn't know they would do that

I just texted my sister to ask what their rents are this year now they are not in halls. One is £106 a week and one is £325 a week.

£325 a week? How on earth are normal families supposed to find that?

Is that self catered in London for £13,900?

She's been offered a place with AA4S in London at £165 per week.
Not any more than the Scottish costs for accomodation (& she can stay for 3 years whereas Edinburgh you can't). She will get a bursary towards costs.
There are just 60 people on a very flexible course. She knows the Tube well (more likely to use that than transport here as she likes the anonymous nature of London)
To pay all that to live in Edinburgh would be annoying but the commute is just too far. She isn't all that impressed with the computer courses there (Napier). MUCH more interested in the Engineering courses (electrical engineering) but doesnt' have H Maths needed. The job offer she has just had says they would be interested in supporting her through a graduate apprenticeship in time - the experience there might stand in for H Maths in applying for that scheme. That would mean 4 days a week working 10m from home & 1 day a week commuting but she might feel she is not a 'proper student' that way? I'm going to research it for her though tomorrow.

She knows the courses at Abertay are better but she isn't doing Gaming or Ethical Hacking or even Cyber but standard computing (which is less good?)
She doesnt' feel at all at home in Dundee. There isn't a student union. She doesn't like the accomodation (by a big road & opposite the Police who she is scared of for some reason so I don't think she'll settle there probably)

BUT Abertay or Napier would give her a better chance of employment than the funky London course & she would have option of live at home & commute in for part time, qualified better £ work in time. That would probs be ideal for her.
London would be MUCH more fun (& she really deserves some fun) but less sensible in the longer term.

Yes! I think she had a lot of ramen.

Can Abertay students use Uni of Dundee student union? It is actually a really fabulous place to go to uni, might be worth exploring if she can access Uni of Dundee facilities as it is a beautiful traditional looking campus

Some other things to consider…

A cohort of 60 is tiny and while good from a teaching perspective it is a small pool from a social perspective. My autistic dd went to a secondary school with a cohort of 60 and she failed to find anyone who ‘got’ her. Although I guess at uni they all have a common interest via the course they’re own so maybe it might be ok.

Also there is a massive difference between rural Scotland and London. I have lived in both rural Scotland and London. London is very impersonal, hectic and intense. My autistic London-born dd has enjoyed moving away from London to a smaller town for Uni. It is also a very expensive city in which to be a student. It will be expensive to get back home and not really feasible for a weekend as will take too long unless fly which is £££.

Another suggestion to play with - undergrad in Scotland, followed by a Masters at LIS. Gives her three years to get her life skills honed. Won't be the end of the world if she doesn't cope with London by herself - she just quits and comes home. But having that as something to aim for might be helpful?

I mean this kindly but your dd doesn't appear to have the life skills yet to be able to survive at university, particularly in London. I would spend the next few years working on these before even thinking of university, which quite honestly is stressful enough for young people. I don't think this is something you can do in a 'summer crash course' as you suggest.

I know that it's not currently one of the options but please have a look at De Montfort. Their support for SN students is supposed to be very good.

You seem very keen on London.

She could go down in half term on her own and see how she feels about it all, spend a few days there.

I would think very, very carefully about whether LIS would actually suit your DD. It is very different in its approach to other universities. Their problem-solving based approach bringing together a whole range of subjects and skills, means that it suits some students very well but others not at all. It suits students who are either very well-rounded in their skills and interests or those who are resilient enough to accept sometimes being amongst the worst at certain things and having to struggle and put in lots of extra work just to keep up. It suits students who are flexible in their thinking and activity, who work well doing projects in groups and teams, who can not just cope with but thrive on complexity and who can take in and synthesise a lot of diverse information without getting overwhelmed and falling behind.

It might sound cool and fun and funky now, and it might turn out to be, but given your DD's autism, dyslexia, depression and possible ADHD, think carefully about whether such an approach to learning really plays to her strengths and how she might cope if things stop being fun and cool, particularly if she is having to put so much effort and attention into everyday living at the same time. The people at LIS might 'get' her, they might be supportive, but they can't do the work for her if she can't work in the way the course requires. There are other routes to living in London that seem, based on what you have told us, far less risky and potentially damaging to her confidence than LIS given where she is now.

Hi!

I worked in a Scottish university in Student Engagement for 10 years, so want to add a wee bit that might be useful.

First thing - Abertay has no student union is not quite correct. Abertay has no student union bar is what you mean. They have an excellent student association with loads of societies and activities and all sorts of things. They just don't run a bar. Abertay students can 100% access the Dundee student union bar. The bar is way less important than the support and activities offered, and beyond the initial few weeks, you'll find most students don't stick to the student union bar anyway.

(I didn't work at either of the above, but am familiar with them).

You want to be getting in touch with the university disability service, they are the key people who can help your daughter, as they link into everything. They'll have links to halls, to wellbeing services, as well as links to the academic departments. It's hard when academics with zero training are expected to provide pastoral care/support for students, so I'm saddened to hear about your daughter's previous experience, but not surprised.

The funding in Scotland is pretty great, and allows for flexibility if she starts a course and it isn't for her, there are good options to move to others and carry credits over without having to reapply and go through the whole funding process again.

I'd recommend that you contact the disability teams and ask if you can go to the campuses to meet with them to see what things could be put in place for different courses.

I'd also echo what others have said though, she can go to uni at anytime, it's not a decision to rush just because of a deadline in June. If she can't decide, it could be that she's not ready to decide and she might need to take more time, work for a bit and see how she feels in the future.

You spoke about a crash course over the summer on independent living. I do feel unless your dd has the correct support in place, moving away from uni is going to be a huge struggle.

personally I would be encouraging my 20yr old to to the apprenticeship. Paid to work and learn gaining a qualification too sounds like the best route for her.

living away from home isn’t for everyone. I have one niece who loved it and still lives in the city she studied in and another who tried it for 1 year then decided to commute as it was a better fit for her,

I would be really cautious about the London Interdisciplinary School. It's so new it's not yet proven, has no reputation. It may be a brilliant option for the right kind of students that click with the vision of the founders but I very much doubt that an autistic young person from rural Scotland is the planned-for type and with a cohort of 60 they simply won't have the flexibility, resources or specialist staff to accommodate all possible additional needs. I am dubious about the very idea of an organisation being granted the status of "University" with only 60 undergraduates and only one course. That seems to totally miss the point of what a University fundamentally is - though I acknowledge they are signed off by OFS there are many smaller universities struggling to stay afloat at the moment and while this place may have the title of University it's not going to do what a University does. A University isn't just "school but harder" - it's primarily about expanding the frontiers of human knowledge through research, publication and conferences and undergraduates get to learn the extent of existing knowledge in their field or fields of choice directly from those who are building the next layer up. You simply cannot do that on a small scale even if OFS grant the status to say they'll let you.

For a start, access to an excellent academic library is vital for any kind of interdisciplinary study and LIS doesn't appear to be part of SCONUL (https://access.sconul.ac.uk/) so it's unclear how students will get access to any appreciable volume of resources beyond what's free on the internet. Maintaining a good academic library is a large part of what student fees are spent on at normal universities and new and small universities can achieve this through membership of sconul but I am not sure what kind of alternative LIS is offering. I am deeply suspicious that you can't find out any further detail than the couple of paragraphs of marketing guff on the website without giving over all your personal details. We autistic people can be easy prey to marketing spin in situations like this, and can get obsessively fixated on the idea we are mis-sold.

Your DD does not have to go to university this year if the courses at option 1 or 2 aren't inspiring she doesn't have to do either. If my doubts about LIS turn out unfounded maybe that will be ok but she shouldn't go there because it seems so much more exciting. I think the seeming exciting may be marketing glitz anyway but swerving the less inspiring options isn't a good reason to take such a huge gamble when there are dozens of other options at more suitable providers. If the smallness attracts her she would be better at a small college that isn't aiming for University status independently but offers tertiary level courses with the support and backing of an established university. Such colleges exist in many cities and a course like that might be a brilliant foundation for University study when the time and opportunity is right.

Hi OP! Just to add to the mix - I went to uni in a city and then did my masters in London. I come from a rural area in England and in hindsight I think it's great I didn't go for undergrad uni in London. Even living in halls (as I did during my masters) it can be a tough place to live. So my undergrad was kind of like my stepping stone.
Also I totally agree with PP saying there's no rush. I had a mix of ages on my undergrad and masters and honestly probably could have used a gap year or two to get some world knowledge myself! So perhaps if the decision is overwhelming, your DD is best to wait a year, work and give it time to get clarity of thought. Best of luck to her and you, you sound like a lovely mum x

I was very dubious about the London choice before reading the post from Opus.

I know 2 ND students currently at Uni and both live at home. Right now that's the right choice for them. They have enough to cope with doing the course and just being with other students and need the familiarity and comfort of home.

Another DF has a DS with ASD & ADHD. He went away to Uni but ended up dropping out. Eventually they managed to get him home where he just stayed in his room for months, seemed to have burnout. My DF managed to get him into one of the local Unis and with support he eventually got his degree.

My DC1 has ADHD and is just over an hour away but does have other family nearby who he sees quite regularly. They also come home for the odd weekend and catch up with friends when they're getting a bit overwhelmed.

I would try and persuade her to stay reasonably close to home. She can always try living in London to do a Masters or to work afterwards.

She does need to have some enthusiasm for the Uni and the course though. Three years is a long time to spend doing something you don't enjoy.

If she can't get the bus home from her own town in May, how is she going to live completely independently in London in September? That seems like an enormous leap to me.

Perhaps she could go down this week on her own to look at the room. Maybe she could stay overnight. I'd be doing that now, before the deadline.

Can you say more about the bursary? We ruled out our oldest going to university in London on cost grounds. We worked out she would need twice the loan amount and a part time job and we couldn't afford it.