Agonising between university offers

[Redhotchillipeppers]

DS had narrowed his university offers down to Warwick, Durham and Leeds. He has applied for maths and is predicted 4A stars. Warwick is ranked considerably higher for maths than the other 2, but not keen on the travel from leamington spa/coventry in years 2&3. It is 2.5 hour drive from us. Durham seems like a great student experience, but heard some stories about lack of student accommodation in years 2&3, coming with a very high price tag. Leeds is on the doorstep and several of DSs friends are planning on going there. Both he and us are struggling to decide on what would be best.

They would be quite different uni experiences, one a campus uni and one run on a collegiate system. Have you looked at the various Durham colleges?

Yes we have. He has selected 3 to take a closer look at for the offer holder day. Likes the catered options!

But he has been helping with dinner everyday for the last couple of months. He knows at the back of his mind that he may be going somewhere other than Leeds. Made a few meals for us on his own too. I guess we just have to wait until we’ve been to all offer days.

I’d also be tempted to lean towards Warwick rather than Durham on the basis of reputation for maths (2 of my DC’s friends are currently there, can’t remember if it’s for maths or comp sci though), but it’s got to be somewhere that he’s going to be comfortable spending the next 3 years of his life.

I think Durham it has some different things about it and a good worldwide reputation.

The best choice on paper isn't always right for the individual. My DS is about to decline his offer for what would appear to be his ideal University. Indeed it was his dream for a long time and I think he was just as suprised as everyone else when he decided it wasn't for him after all. But he has sound reasons, both in terms of the course content and lifestyle for preferring somewhere else and I am happy to support his decision even though lots of people seem to think he has lost his marbles.
I agree with the majority that Warwick seems like your DS's best option. And it's an excellent University - both my brother and niece went there and had great experiences. My brother did a maths heavy STEM degree and even all those years ago the maths department was outstanding. It would seelm like a very sensible choice and if he is unable to make a decision then I probably would gently encourage him in that direction. But if he genuinely doesn't feel it's the right place for him then I wouldn't push him. None of his options are "bad" are they? Leeds may not have quite the kudos of the other two but it's not like he is wanting to go to the local tech instead of a top University, and being happy is important.
Sorry, I know that's not very helpful, but I wouldn't ignore any strong gut feelings.

Another vote for Warwick for Maths, for all the reasons pp have pointed out.

My DSs also have offers from Warwick and Durham for maths along with Edinburgh and St.A (still waiting for Imperial) I would say Warwick is definitely top of their list so far and Durham would be a great insurance being a lower offer than the others but we still have more offer holders days before they make their final decision. We were at the Warwick offer holder day on Saturday and it was interesting to hear some students stay on campus for the 2nd and 3rd year, also some stay in other local accommodation so there are other options to Leamington Spa and Coventry. At the end of the day it's your son's decision to make but I would worry that Leeds won't be very challenging for him especially in the first year.

@MrsAvocet your post is helpful and I’m all for gut feelings and DSs wasn’t great about Leeds. But it wasn’t for Imperial either, so he didn’t put it down as a choice. I’m wondering if that’s because he went to those two with friends rather than us, and if that’s skewed things. Not to be ungrateful but it would have been easier with just 2 offers.

IMO there are several different levels of gut feeling. I've been to the Warwick campus several times, both as a student and for graduate recruitment. I could never see myself living there for 3 years! I'm very much of a 'buzzy city' or 'pretty building' girl, it had neither. Lancaster didn't appeal to me either. Essex was OK however. London and Newcastle I loved.

That aside, module considerations don't really seem to feature here, as well as undergraduate opportunities for research. Has he got any feelings about the course itself?

Looking at the BSc Mathematics for both, Warwick allows for a broader range of core modules in the final year including non-Maths. Leeds involves a group project. Also a work placement/year abroad (which you've mentioned). Furthermore Warwick seems weighted towards more pure mathematics, Leeds applied.

Placement isn't really necessary if you can get a summer internship which Warwick has a lot of good resources and support for. He'll need to start applying at the beginning of second year. Bear in mind that even placements are not guaranteed and also need applying for ... the ones with large graduate employers are also quite competitive.

One reason my 5 children just about never went on an offer or any other open day was so as not to be influenced by things that don't matter (and they said they did not have time). However lots of people do like visits. On Durham as back up to Warwick that should be fine. One of my sons was so sure he would get his Bristol grades he had a back up that was the same offer (very foolish in my view but he did get the grades so I suppose his risk taking was okay).

@potaytopotahto33 he has conducted a module mapping exercise with a teacher at school. Not spoken to him about this in depth. I’ll certainly ask for his thoughts on this in more detail.

@Xenia What would you say are the things that matter?

Leeds! Go with your heart - they are all great places so think where you would want to live!

Warwick is so far ahead of the others in terms of reputation for maths (here and internationally) that it seems like an obvious choice to me, unless he really hates the place. Certainly if he is looking to work in a mathsy field, Durham will definitely not be seen as equally prestigious as a PP said.

Sounds like a campus would suit him too. I don't think accommodation for 2nd and 3rd years should be much of a factor - if he wants to stay on campus he probably can, if he wants to live off campus but close by, he can. Lots of people live closer than Leamington, accommodation for Warwick students is plentiful and cheap.

Btw my DS left home unable to cook, had virtually no domestic skills (not through want of trying on our part), and he managed. Even though yours is not as independent as his sister, he will be fine.

2nd/3rd yr Warwick students don't just live in Leamington Spa, that's just one option. Many also live in Kenilworth and Canley very close to campus and in addition there's at least 3 private student accomodations all within walking distance of campus. Warwick also gives the option of staying on campus throughout their time there.

My DS is also a 4xA star predicted Maths applicant. We have visited all the 3 universities you mention for open days. My DS didn't really like Warwick and so it didn't make his final 5.Neither did Leeds as he thought, even though he liked Leeds, that it wasn't one of the strongest universities for Maths. He did like Durham and Durham maybe my DS's insurance with Edinburgh (2nd year entry) as firm. I would suggest he has his favourite from Warwick or Durham as his firm and Leeds as insurance.

DS1 went to Warwick and did Maths. It was his insurance choice after Cambridge (failed to get the STEP grade). It was a risk as both wanted 4A*.
His choices were between Durham, Nottingham and Warwick. He was put off Durham on the offer days and chose Warwick because of it's reputation.

He loved the campus at Warwick and living in Leamington was a different experience. We are very rural and he's no party animal so it was all very different.
He got a first but didn't seem to me to get much support at Warwick.

He should look at the course and go where he will be happy for three years.
All the hype about going to the best uni might matter if you are going into a niche job in law but in hindsight for both of my DC their degrees have not played much part in furthering their careers.

@mushroom3 there’s not a lot of difference between the Durham and Leeds offers. Although on the face of it Leeds does appear to be the lower offer. He’s not dropped below 90% on any maths/FM mock or below 85% on the other two - although I appreciate the stress of the exams in the summer will be very different and run over a longer period. At present nothing is ruled out.

@TheBackingSinger wow! 4A stars requested by both. That’s harsh

DS had lined up Warwick as his firm then Durham as his insurance but now he has his offer from Imperial he's torn between Imperial or Warwick as his firm for Maths

Hi @Redhotchillipeppers sounds just like my DS. I think the offers are different as on the Maths/FM papers you can get a last question with a very large number of marks and if you get that wrong, or don't get it, you could drop on that. I'm assuming the Astar A from Durham is for Maths/Further with the Cs for the other 2 subjects and from Leeds it's A or B from Maths or Further Maths and B for one other. Further Maths seems to be the one that sometimes on the day, a usually A star student may fall down to a B, everyone doing it is very good at Maths and so margins of error are small.

Congratulations on the offer. I feel your pain on having to make that choice.

@mushroom3 that’s good info to know. Maybe we go with Leeds as insurance.

Hi, OP -

As a former RG STEM admissions tutor I think this is more subtle than it first appears. DC usually do best where they are happiest; however what this means can be complex.

For your DS with his high TMUA score and outstanding PGs I do think having a good peer group is going to be part of the happiness equation. Just what challenges is he hoping to find in Leeds whilst cruising mathematically? I have a real fear that in the modules requiring group work, which are becoming more common throughout STEM everywhere, he will be both frustrated and taken advantage of. I don’t think he is going to find the intellectual give and take there that is more likely in Durham and certainly to be found in Warwick.

Durham is lovely but I haven’t interacted with UGs there. Whenever I visit Warwick I think the students look happy. A family member who did UG there had a wonderful time and, incidentally, played in the university orchestra. The student music scene is excellent.

I think the reaction DS has to each place is important. I hope either Durham or (preferably, for all the reasons put forth above) Warwick will feel like the best choice when he visits again. BTW I disagree with DH that a Durham Maths degree will be more useful. Warwick Maths is that special.

DS says now that he wants to settle in Leeds but he is only 17. At that age a STEM PhD, a British husband, and life in the UK were three of the furthest things from my mind! Gently, can you persuade him to make this decision independently of his girlfriend? If the relationship is meant to be, it will survive different universities.

But if Leeds is the only place that feels right and this isn’t just fear talking, I think DS should follow his instincts.