Uni has cancelled Dads course

[MixedPeel27]

Not sure what we are supposed to do now.

Uni has just announced that they will no longer be offering DDs degree, she is in her second year of three.

Some lecturers are being made redundant this summer and others have openly said they are looking to leave because they know they won't have a job much longer.

No clear info from the Uni about what will happen to students currently in their first and second year, except that they will be offered "other appropriate modules", but these are unlikely to be specifically for her subject which is quite narrow and specific. It's part of a wider department but they are in fact closing the whole department.

It's particularly upsetting for DD as the third year counts for 70% of her degree.

I don't understand how they can do this? She literally has no choice but to stay there and do some random modules she has no interest in, to finish her degree. She isn't doing it to just get a qualification, she really wanted to study this topic and learn.

what universities are for.

To make money. Same as the water companies. The electricity and gas companies. Phone companies. Pharmacies and schools. Buses, trains, houses.

They are all there to make money.

For someone.

The idea that the human race should only research things that make money.

The problem with suggesting less kids go to University is the lack of alternative and the fact many jobs that never asked for a degree 20+ years ago now expect one.
I did a part-time degree many years ago and think it's a great option but our manufacturing industry barely exists and there aren't the same number of employers willing to pay and support this type of learning, even though in my opinion you get a better graduate at the end.
I know of kids doing electrician courses at 6th form colleges who can't get an apprenticeship.

It’s a good question though, who is the someone? The other organisations listed have owners or shareholders and universities don’t. Which suggests their primary aim is not actually to make money because who would the money be for? I’m no expert in university finance but afaik it just gets ploughed back into the university. Universities support a lot of jobs but no one person or group is creaming off the profits i don’t think.

It’s a good question though, who is the someone?

The key takeaway, is not you matey.

9k is incredibly good value for money. Consultancies charge our workplace 2k a day for 15 people to do a training course and the facilitators are good but they're not the top researchers in their field!

The people making the money aren't that visible.

For example, rather than having a subsidised canteen or coffee shop, these locations are "sold" to Starbucks.

Or there's money for fairly nebulous things like "mental health" or "the environment" or "period poverty".

I'm sure most people agree these are important.

But you have contractors who will charge £5000000 for "delivering these services" (some dinners with the VC and senior academics?) which won't be "paying for support staff" or anything tangible but some really overpriced weird initiative (didn't realise it cost £25 to get a pack of tampons).

Ditto with scientific equipment...there's monitoring devices which everyone knows have been obsolete for years and years.

The manufacturers ask professors (another expensive dinner and paid "consultancy role") to force the junior researchers to use them. That's another £300000 microscope that that taxpayer has to fund...(you can buy better equipment from Amazon now and have change from £50).

But you can't argue with the professor or you are Arguing Against Science.

Its similar to the PFIs that now plague and bankrupt councils....there's definitely people skimming money in a legal way.

Arts and culture is a big issue. It's a massive UK export and a source of a lot of our international "soft power" but funding (in and out of HE) for arts is being slashed.

Second biggest contributor to the UK economy after finance - we need to boost arts education now before we lose that.

That’s for sure 😆

@londonmummy1966 Just to be clear. I’m not against arts training but does it have to be via uni degrees? We clearly have many who don’t get jobs. They didn’t need to be graduates in dance or art. We need an alternative route for many. It wouldn’t make arts less. Just would not cost the state as much for loans unpaid!

Why do people think part time degrees only supported manufacturing? How odd. They didn’t. They supported all the roles we have in industry, commerce and the public sector. We know we don’t need degree holders for lots of jobs. We could employ at 18 and train in the job with day release. We need to assess what we do need as opposed to just assuming it’s a degree.

As many unis have debts, not sure anyone is really making money. Unis can decide to award contracts or not. The service provided still has to be paid for! Maybe it costs more to run that cheap subsisted canteen! So we all appear to want cheap as long as someone else pays for it.

How would arts training be paid for then? Still by student loans. You're just moving the problem from one place to another. Small, specialist institutes are amongst the most financially vulnerable. It's generally business schools that are cross subsidising other faculties...

Considering the direction the financial sector is going, arts and culture could soon be the biggest.

And in the Telegraph today we are told we have too many computer programmers.

Planning courses, the length of a degree is it suitable for the agility our economy needs? My father left school at 14, learnt as an apprentice, did 7 years, learnt the equipment that needed to be used for the contracts they were awarded. Got certification he had mastered the role. He ended up teaching graduates but was retired early when he didn’t have ‘a proper degree’. (He had multiple honorary degrees from institutions in about five different countries) Then had to hire him back again as no one else had his experience,

i know tradespeople who have got bad backs and knees in their 50s and would love to teach for ten plus years to pass on their skills but when they’ve contacted a college the hoops and requirements just make it almost impossible. They can take on an apprentice but that is a lot of responsibility without much support and only one every few years (if they stick around)

How did anyone train in the arts before they all had degrees?! We had 18 unis in 1950. We obviously had art schools and drama schools but not as many places. It’s absolutely clear that these degrees are highly subsidised by the state because the degree holders don’t pay off the loans. So perhaps fewer degrees is the way forward so employment opportunities are better.

I think cancelling the course altogether would mean they were breaching her contract with them and it would be in breach of consumer law. Wait to see what the comms say. Institutions normally honour the contract with students in some form or outline th implications for them if they stay/leave. She may be able to transfer her first year credit elsewhere. I'd strongly advise her to speak to the Student Union Advice Centre

These are the latest stats from the government on exports - where exactly are the arts exports?

Absolutely not - my DC is at a conservatoire - but the finance is the same as uni (except that they have an almost full fees scholarship which is something not seen often at unis). However the last year has seen a massive ramping up of the number of foreign students (the large majority for many instruments already) which means that there aren't enough practice rooms to go round - not a problem for wind and strings who can practice in their rooms but a massive PITA for pianoist/organists/percussionists etc who need to use rooms in college.

@londonmummy1966 Absolutely not to which para? So maybe the international students, in effect, pay for the scholarships? Cross subsidy?

here https://www.mckinsey.com/uk/our-insights/assessing-the-direct-impact-of-the-uk-arts-sector

@londonmummy1966 Not in govt stats so difficult to ascertain hard value. I’m not saying it’s not there at all but not to the value of other exports. It be accounted for as it’s something the govt must be aware of. I guess it’s not up there with car exports .

The arts and culture sector contributed £109bn to the UK economy in 2021 - see this HoL report https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/arts-and-creative-industries-the-case-for-a-strategy/

The automotive industry contributed £14bn in the same year and £13 bn last year - see this HoC report https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2023-0189/

That's eye opening @londonmummy1966

Yes - not quite like for like as the cost of manufacturing is so much higher for motoring so high export figures can morph into low profits.

It would be if it was just the arts. It is not. It’s IT and all sorts of jobs that support creative industries. It’s not music and theatre.

As identified by PP, the main overhead is premises and ancillary services. What we really need is to see universities fully utilised 50 weeks of the year. Degrees completed in two years for the same cost (£28k). Expand academic staff numbers slightly and it should be workable. Shouldn't it?