Uni has cancelled Dads course

[MixedPeel27]

Not sure what we are supposed to do now.

Uni has just announced that they will no longer be offering DDs degree, she is in her second year of three.

Some lecturers are being made redundant this summer and others have openly said they are looking to leave because they know they won't have a job much longer.

No clear info from the Uni about what will happen to students currently in their first and second year, except that they will be offered "other appropriate modules", but these are unlikely to be specifically for her subject which is quite narrow and specific. It's part of a wider department but they are in fact closing the whole department.

It's particularly upsetting for DD as the third year counts for 70% of her degree.

I don't understand how they can do this? She literally has no choice but to stay there and do some random modules she has no interest in, to finish her degree. She isn't doing it to just get a qualification, she really wanted to study this topic and learn.

We only have a handful of teaching only lecturers, but their workload wouldn't be more than 15 hours a week. If you have a PhD are you applying for uni jobs? I realise they're scarce though, particularly if you've no research experience

I do have a PhD, and two years of part time postdoc, but I'm very niche (crop science) and tied geographically until the children leave school, so I'm applying, but only for positions I could commute to at the moment. In a couple of years the world will be my oyster!

@MixedPeel27
In car no one has mentioned this, the Uni had to have a Student Protection Plan.
Office for Students regulates this https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/student-wellbeing-and-protection/student-protection/student-protection-plans/

Some people on this thread make me laugh. No, £9250, virtually unchanged for more than a decade, cannot possibly cover the cost of a student. Teaching hours is one tiny fraction of the cost: course planning and preparation, student support, assignments marking and feedback exam preparation, marking and moderation, quality assurance, module review, responding to student feedback, tutorials, personal office hours, admin (sooo much admin!), student support, including health, wellbeing and learning support, dealing with students intermitting or asking for extensions or extenuating circumstances, the lecture theatres, labs, studios etc., equipment, planning field trips, going on field trips, careers support, placements, internships, libraries, digital services and resources, IT support, the students union, class reps, open days, interviews, graduation, all the normal organisational stuff like estates and HR and marketing and governance...

What have I missed out? Oh, research, which doesn't have cost recovery anywhere near 100%.

My first uni stopped the course I was on in year 2 out of 4. Some students transferred to a similar course, some switched their modules around and some transferred to a different uni. It happens.

Oh, and not all universities have endowments, spin outs, massive commercial arms etc. If you are a smaller or newer university, or serving a mainly local population or focusing on degrees leading to public sector careers you're stuffed. International student numbers are dropping like a stone, likewise on campus spending since covid and cost of living crisis. Energy costs have gone sky high when student accommodation rates have not risen by the same (utilities included!).

The only good thing about university finances is that they are not as bad as local government or the NHS.

Saying that universities can sub student finance gaps by selling more coffee is like saying councils can pay for social care from car parking revenue...

Absolutely. And the 'only has nine hours of contact time' as well. You are meant to be preparing for those classes by reading as well as doing written work for them.

I meant the students there.

Any shortfall has to come from taxation. Students can't afford to pay more than £9k a year, they are already coming out with far too much debt.

He's reading for a degree, that means he needs to read not just the set books but around his subject.

Outside of lectures most students can participate in sports / activities, if they play for a uni team they will also be travelling to other unis.

There are libraries, cafes, shops that have to be paid for. Some unis have grounds that need maintaining, then there is security, things like lighting, as most uni libraries open 24 / 7 the campus has to have enough outside lighting for students to see where they are going.

The libraries are not like the local library, students expect bookable study rooms, computers, copiers etc. They usually also run courses on how to study and how to use various bits of the library.

Then you have security guards, counsellors, cleaners.

If the uni is not on a single campus then they normally run free busses to and from the other campus(es).

All the buildings need to be maintained.

Depending on the course the uni may be supplying specialist equipment and things like chemicals.

Plus all the things others have mentioned.

Also worth noting that all graduate debt that is written off because the individual doesn't repay in full within the timeframe is covered by the tax payer. At one point this was about 50% of the total debt. So we are already paying off students' loans for them, increasing their personal debt will not necessarily "save" the tax payer any more money.

Yes, that was part of my post that I didn't post - fees are largely funded through loans that are increasingly written off (look up the RAB charge). The shift in how HE is now funded has knock-on effects.

Of course, we could be like Scotland and reduce the number of university places available, that would reduce the overall cost...

Is it Archaeology OP? sometimes subjects fall foul of it not being offered at A level anymore. Universities don't do enough to connect the humanities subjects to industry- in Business Studies etc students are offered placements and often end up with more job opportunities as a result.

Not much help, but investigate a refund. Now education is a commodity, it should be treated as such by both sides. (And I applaud students that have cottoned on and sued for shoddy goods).

My Dd made a formal complaint for bad teaching on her degree, the SU supported her and every student in her cohort got a cash settlement. So it does happen. DD’s complaint was 70 pages long and the university investigated and upheld every point of her complaint.

I hate the commercialisation of education. I marched against it every chance I got all through the 80s.

But we are where we are. If it's a commodity, rather than a basic right, the sue the arses of the companies that fail until they vanish. It's the whole point of capitalism.

I know of a couple of people who moved for their third year, both due to personal circumstances. It's definitely possible.

Yes. You can transfer credits. She needs to work out which unis she would be ok transferring to, and talk to them.

yes transfer, I would try and transfer before the end of the year so she can acclimatise to new uni, new folks, new accom but you may get penalised on the accom front. Although frankly I would be addressing this with the University and trying to get the money out of them if any was lost. Still what cost sorting out for your DD

Absolutely. Ultimately if a university forgets to teach an entire module because the staff member left and nobody picked it up and then they try and cram a semesters worth of teaching into a few weeks and then 80% fail the assessment and their degree they need taking to task.

@MumblesParty I was a postdoc many years ago in a computer science department at a RG university. The department is very well regarded. The lecturers and professors worked a lot more than 40 hours week and taught very few hours. Their jobs, as far as I understood, was publishing journal papers, chair conferences, get research grants, mentor postdocs and doctoral students. All the things that bring the department research glory. There was a lot of travel and a lot of working all evenigns and weekends. I remember an early career lecturer told me he didn't do very well in his appraisal because he wasn't on enough committees for well regarded conferences. He also complained the professors took all the good papers for their returns.

@GinForBreakfast i think we do need a reappraisal of who goes to university. There’s a dire need to refocus what is on offer and make a judgement on whether the state should pay for students who cannot use their degrees for jobs. Around 20% each year don’t get grad jobs. They may not get any grad premium in their working life. Many are arts related students but not all. A cull is overdue. I think former colleges of HE and teacher training should not have become unis. We don’t need over 100 unis offering law and history. We need to offer these courses, obviously, but not so many. This definitely applies to some arts subjects too. Parents pay a high price for many dc to get a degree but if there’s no earnings premium, working with part time study is better. Part time degree numbers have fallen off a cliff!

i think we do need a reappraisal of who goes to university.

Why ? They are businesses. They need to attract customers - the more the better.

So much to unpack from that @TizerorFizz, which goes to the heart of what universities are for. Public vs private good, workforce producers, social mobility enablers, "brand UK" ambassadors... Arts and culture is a big issue. It's a massive UK export and a source of a lot of our international "soft power" but funding (in and out of HE) for arts is being slashed.