Living at home during university

[Souvenir81]

Do you think kids miss out a lot by living at home during university?

DD wants to go to an university in London; we live in London; she thinks she will move out but I have asked her to check cost of living which she did. I said we can support with around 8k a year.

If she wants to move out I said she will need maintenance loan plus fees loan. If she stay at home we could put some of the 8k towards student fees. Less debt.

Perhaps she can try student accommodation for a year? She is already quite independent, cook her breakfast and lunches, do her laundry, help with shopping, very sensible with money and matured. Prefers socialising with a small group of friends than big parties.

University without the socialisation is just another course to add to the list.
I'm a recruiter and director at a large big four consulting firm. Given pretty every young adult has a degree we select our graduates for social skills, life skills, credibility and capability. I've rejected Oxbridge firsts for lacking in these skills several times

I'm sure there are many companies who will snatch up your Oxbridge rejects because of their skills learned at Uni.

And I'm not sure that paying lots of money for the experience of sharing a student house is a good investment?!

@squeakydoggo since you're at a Big4 organisation I assume you know that the "big3" (McKinsey, Bain and BCG) carry very high weight as to university name.

Loughborough

I see quite often families from London (and those outside) are very quick to dismiss London unis.

Maybe their children didn't manage to get a place at Imperial or LSE etc?

It would be wrong imo to turn down the option of studying at a world class Uni whilst saving money by living at home, just so you can have a 'student experience'

Sorry @Assascc but that is somewhat wide of the mark.

yes three unis in London are just over the 50% mark for international undergrads. But those three unis - LSE, Imperial, UCL - whilst undoubtedly world class are not the only unis in London. They account for 15% of all London undergrads, and as @Needmoresleep points out their international popularity as both being located in one of the worlds leading Global cities and being academically world class is no great surprise and nothing particularly new.

the home to the other 85% of students have a combined rough 77:23 split for home vs international undergrads. Kings is at just under 40%, and two others Brunel and City just edge above the 25% mark.

as need also points out their outreach is pretty good too. In the latest HEPI Social Mobily Index LSE is 5th, UCL 10th, Imperial 11th. Add to that in the top 20 also City, Kings and QMUL 3rd, 4th and 6th respectively, plus South Bank, Greenwich, and Brunel. For context Cambridge and Oxford 16th and 21st whereas Durham 74th and Exeter 92nd.

it is all rather more nuanced than your post implies.

I agree! Imperial and LSE are fab and if you do well there, you're set up for life. Like I'm not sure for engineering. But for economics, why would you turn down an LSE offer to let's say go to Bristol or Nottingham or Leeds (not bad unis at all) but not on the calibre of LSE.

@boys3 As someone who works in one of the top 3 unis you mention, am very well aware a)of the stats, b) nuance. However, I think when people discuss London unis they often to mean UCL, Imperial,LSE and Kings....and whether it's better to go there or Durham.

In terms of mobility - I think you will find that the others have even more students who stay at home while studying because I don't imagine anyone moving from north of England to go to Brunel when equal unis can be found elsewhere at lower cost.

Plus I don't think we should take background and ethnicity out of this conversation - much of this convo about uni experience is very white and British, I think thousands of Londonerd who are not that also opt for a different uni experience yet again - and yes often in London unis.

I agree! Imperial and LSE are fab and if you do well there, you're set up for life. Like I'm not sure for engineering. But for economics, why would you turn down an LSE offer to let's say go to Bristol or Nottingham or Leeds (not bad unis at all) but not on the calibre of LSE.

For Engineering there are only two UK unis in the global top 10 and that is Imperial and Cambridge. The rest rank far lower. So yes, it would be crazy to turn down that option just to get a 'student experience' outside of London?!

@Assascc I think you are almost certainly likely right on those four being the main interest for most Higher Ed board discussions relating to London. Rightly or wrongly I personally don’t see Kings (excellent though it is) at the same level as the other three.

though of the others the number of hardy souls from the North who go to Brunel as undergrads has just about made it into three figures. :😀just passing the 1% of the UK undergrads there! Uxbridge clearly has much to do in terms of place marketing. Maybe just change the first vowel and hitch themselves to that bandwagon, its near the M40 after all.

highly pertinent point about very white and very British context for the thread.

I agree there has been a very ‘white’ focus.

The interest in the ‘student experience’ of living away from home seems to be something that perhaps first, second or third generation immigrants might have as much less of a primary focus. University for studying and as a stepping stone to career seems much more important and living at home, especially if living near a top university (especially a London one) a no-brainer.

British students are predominantly white, but there are very significant numbers of those who aren’t and this thread has neglected current patterns, past patterns and priorities of a sizeable group of students who often target top universities and are very successful in gaining places, perhaps especially on STEM degree courses. I wonder if any studies show the proportions of students living away from home and living at home to study for different types of course?

I don’t know, but it feels as if most if the contributors to this thread have been white British. It would be really interesting to hear from parents considering universities for their kids from other backgrounds, including international families. It’s quite sobering to me, that when I’ve thought about this topic, I have probably had a narrow demographic in mind and I think others might have too. When I think university, I still probably picture my own experiences of 30 years ago, even though I have been to a number of Open Days in recent times.

As a parent, we didn’t visit our local universities. We listened to subject talks but were just as interested in seeing Halls of Residence, which in fact are usually lived in just for one year. Often the teens are more interested in the Halls than the course talks. They look at the webs pages describing en-suite rooms more avidly than the details of the course structure and modules available. I am generalising, but often 17/18 year olds are excited by the prospect of going away, rather than further study.Often they give little thought to the financial side of their choices or future implications. There can be a lack of seriousness and maturity and dedication to study and future career amongst many white British students, which I think is sometimes different in non-white families considering HE. I know I’m generalising and I hope what I’ve said isn’t offensive.

It’s not to do with anyone being better off. It’s about the fact that the time this guy can spend studying my son would need to spend working to scrape together living costs. Therefore impacting his potential attainment. Sorry I didn’t get across what I meant.

@WombatChocolate re your post of 17:24

HESA provide an ethnicity breakdown for UK students by subject groupings (table 53). They normally update their public data tables end Jan / early Feb however there is a delay until April for the 22/23 data so the latest relates to 21/22 academic year.

the table referenced indicates 72% undergrads of white ethnicity, 8% black, 12% Asian, just under 1% Chinese; just under 5% mixed and the balance other.

Taking Medicine and Dentistry - 52% white, 8% black; 30% Asian background, 2% Chinese;

Law - 66% white, just under 9% black; 17% Asian background

Engineering & Technology - very similar to the Law split

three areas providing a relatively clear pathway to potentially well-paid and well regarded careers. Caveat I recognise law grads numbers do exceed demand.

Business and Management 65% white; nearly 11% black, 16% Asian background

on the flip side

Veterinary Sciences 91.6% white

Geog, earth and environmental studies 89% and 87% white for natural sciences and social sciences respectively

Historical, philosophical and religious studies 85% white, 3% black, 5% asian

then separately there was a HEPI report (158) on Living and Learning in London - student life in the capital. Many interesting points within that, but cherry picking:

• London students more likely than those in any other region to say their experience exceeded expectations
• more London students felt their course provided good value for money
• pertinent to this thread students who live at home and commute to Uni more likely to say their experience has exceeded expectations
• London students most likely in the UK to say they are prepared for life beyond university
• London students significantly less likely than those in other regions to value living with or close to other students; a gap of more than 10 percentage points between London and the next region least likely to value this
• London students most likely of students from all UK areas to say they never or almost never feel lonely. but at the same time the second highest region (behind Wales) for feeling lonely all or most of the time
• Nationally 52% of students indicated the cost of living as a concern; although the figure for London lower at 38%. For non Uk/EU students the figure was 25%
• cost of living concern varied at 58% for white students vs 32% for Asian backgrounds
• cost of living again for those living at home 31% had it as a concern; vs 60% for those living in Uni halls. The report notes that living at a home could be a smart and conscious financial move, or conversely that it is keeping students living at home and missing out on the living away experience for reasons of cost.

I agree that this thread has been white middle class focused. At my ds’ inner city grammar school, which is 80% plus Asian, the vast majority stay at home and commute to a local university. Are they wrong? Or do their different values and aspirations result in different, but still valid decisions?

In any case, costs and values aside, it’s just not true that everyone who goes away to uni has a great time. For some it’s a lonely, difficult experience. Of my four siblings and me, 2 went away to uni and had a positive time, 2 went away and were quite miserable at times and 1 commuted and got on fine. One of the ones who went away probably chose the wrong uni and the other would have been better living at home due to neurodiversity.

Often the teens are more interested in the Halls than the course talks. They look at the webs pages describing en-suite rooms more avidly than the details of the course structure and modules available. I am generalising, but often 17/18 year olds are excited by the prospect of going away, rather than further study.Often they give little thought to the financial side of their choices or future implications.

As tax payers we should think twice about paying for their education! That's a very inefficient use of our economy's money, especially if these students don't ever earn enough to pay back their student loans.

Thanks for that. So interesting. And the stats for the different courses are broadly what I’d have thought they would be.

I suppose the people of most concern are those who go to lower regarded universities and do degrees which aren’t well-regarded and don’t seem to take them into graduate jobs - especially if they’ve lived away from home and have tuition loans and maintenance loans. Admittedly they might not pay it all back, but with the new loan system, even those not earning particularly good salaries could end up paying it and paying it for the full 40 years.

I was interested by the ‘historical, philosophical and religious studies’ figure of 85% white students. These areas, which dint have a clear career path - with a low take up by black and Asian students. An earlier poster, on this thread or perhaps another mentioned that these type of degrees can be excellent and have good career prospects, BUT typically if the young adult has connections which enable them to access internships, live close to big cities and have other soft benefits which help them into careers such as law, civil service and banking. Many with humanities and social science degrees don’t go onto these kind of careers. That’s not to say money should be or is the focus of everyone, but at the same time, a degree which essentially costs at least £60k in fees and maintenance (if living away from home) can’t purely be for interest purposes for the vast majority, but needs to lead somewhere and to people having access to decent careers, which without it, they might not be able do.

It leads to the question again, not just about living away from home, but also about going to uni at all - and whether it’s the best thing for everyone who goes, and certainly to thinking carefully before just automatically committing to it as the ‘obvious and only next step’. Probably lots still go because they and their families don’t really think about it fully and just proceeding is easier in lots of ways than exploring the alternatives.

Lots of interesting points. I am getting more on board with the idea of DD staying in London if she gets an offer in the university she wants; but need to make sure she understands she will very likely live at home from years 2 to 4. If she wants to move out it will be too expensive in London and far too much debt.

She is not the party animal type and loves everything London has to offer. At the end of the day is her decision; she just need to to do her research properly.

Thank you for the Martin Lewis reference for student loans. I am more knowledgeable now😅

@boys3 Interesting. London brings many advantages. Not surprising really and staying at home delivers it for far less money too. If you live there! I also think commuting students maybe work hard and don’t do the all night parties so do well?

@WombatChocolate I do think some cultures will try and ensure dc study subjects which lead to a career and it’s not remotely clear that English and Philosophy will do this when compared with law. So it’s a gamble some cultures won’t take. Law has status. I remember my Sri Lankan garage owner asked “what on earth can she do with that?” when DD started a MFL degree. “Why isn’t she doing law or engineering like her dad?” He wasn’t impressed.

@TooOldForThisNonsense Do not assume a dc not working for money at uni studies more!! Parties more maybe? Perhaps @boys3 has stats on degree outcome for students who worked and students who didn’t? Do not forget many work in holidays and are not workshy.

I also think commuting students maybe work hard and don’t do the all night parties so do well?

That is our experience at Imperial. Many students commute from home/further outside of London, and as all students generally work quite hard due to the high workload, they're not really missing out on any parties anyway.

degree outcome for students who worked and students who didn’t?

I'll have to disappoint on that one, although I'm sure they are out there.

This https://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Student-Academic-Experience-Survey-2023.pdf doesn't provide the answer, but section 12 towards the end of the report touches on the impact; but not on degree classification impact.

It is however an interesting report in the broadest sense, worth a peruse.

Then this is the link which I omitted to include in the previous post

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2023/03/09/living-and-learning-in-london-what-the-2022-hepi-advance-he-student-academic-experience-survey-tells-us-about-life-in-the-capital/

@boys3 Research to be done then! I think it’s quite an interesting field to look at. I think work helps students get a grad job. As long as they get 2:1 or better. If a student hasn’t worked I see that as a disadvantage. Not sure a first will make up for it.

Ditto a first holder from Oxbridge (and they give lots of them) doesn’t mean the grad is suitable for every job. There are some they really might not be suitable for due to personality and, again, work experience and soft skills. There’s always more to employment than degree.

I am not following this. Students go to University to study. The object is to gain a good degree. Yes, some might have swap some social life for earning, but that won’t get them a job. If they can afford it, and those living at home may be better able to afford it, they might instead use that time to research and apply for vacation internships, or perhaps do some targeted volunteering, like at a LegalAdvice Centre.

Yes employers will be looking for rounded individuals who will thrive in the workplace. But surely being able to demonstrate not just the knowledge gained from a good degree, but the discipline needed to acquire them, as well as skills acquired from participation in University life - teamwork from sport, leadership skills from a university society etc. Probably better than a string of McJobs.

I agree that work is good for UGs Tizerorfizz. My own son works and will keep that up at Uni. But he’d have to work a hell of a lot more hours than he does at the moment to fund a student lifestyle in Edinburgh and that would likely come at the expense of his studies

@TooOldForThisNonsense Why Edinburgh ? There are other cheaper places . Most students don’t aspire to a very expensive uni lifestyle requiring many hours work. Plus there’s holidays for witk. Thats what lots of students do. Most don’t compare their student life against those with the most money. I can assure that places like Sheffield and Liverpool are full of down to earth students. Obviously if he’s not paying fees he’s going to want Scotland but choosing an expensive city which obviously attracts a well heeled student is avoidable. Clearly living at home and going into Edinburgh would be the cheapest best value option.

Rwgardjng the comments whine, stem degrees tend to be of interest to employers. For fairly obvious reasons. If you study English, History, Philosophy, Polirics, IR, increasingly MFL, Film studies, sociology, anthropology, and even psychology it has to be accepted employers are less likely to look at your degree learning. They dO Not ask you about Chaucer or your views on Kant. So it’s how you can apply the skills you have gained so reading, research, how you argue your case and importantly, can you get through an assessment test and interview are the value of the degree. The test is unlikely be on your degree knowledge. You only have to look at the jobs undertaken by many grads on uni web sites tells you it’s not actual degree content that links to a job (except teachers) it’s all the other skills you acquire and definitely personality. Many people who do not see this have never worked outside their degree subject. If you study Histiory, you probably will.

Probably off topic! Apologies.

Well we are in Scotland and he’s applying with his grades in hand and he’s not interested in English unis due to the tuition fees.

Edinburgh because it’s probably the only uni “better” than the local ones he already has offers for! Not interested in St A and they probably would have the same issue as Edinburgh anyway (except maybe not so easy to find a job)

@Souvenir81 we live in SW London and my DS is at UCL. He lived in halls for the first year, in Bloomsbury, just a stone's throw from uni. It was expensive - about £1200 a month at current prices, but included food. He's now in second year and in a house-share with friends he met in his hall. That costs us £900 a month, and we give him another £350 a month for food & bills, pay auto-topup on his student Zip card, and cover his monthly payg phone top-up. His house-share is in NW1, so walking distance to uni, but he got lucky with that - most of his friends with similar budget live much further out, up to an hour from uni, so he has to travel out to visit them for house parties etc.

When he applied, we agreed he would live at home for one of the three years. He decided that would be the third year. That works for him because some of his friends will be having a year abroad or working in industry, breaking up their house-share.

UCL and their federation-parent UoL (provider of intercollegiate halls) don't prioritise any hall places for third-year students. They do sometimes have spare places from October onwards, but probably not in the most popular halls. There are lots of private halls but they are extortionately priced for the international student market.