Living at home during university

[Souvenir81]

Do you think kids miss out a lot by living at home during university?

DD wants to go to an university in London; we live in London; she thinks she will move out but I have asked her to check cost of living which she did. I said we can support with around 8k a year.

If she wants to move out I said she will need maintenance loan plus fees loan. If she stay at home we could put some of the 8k towards student fees. Less debt.

Perhaps she can try student accommodation for a year? She is already quite independent, cook her breakfast and lunches, do her laundry, help with shopping, very sensible with money and matured. Prefers socialising with a small group of friends than big parties.

I think we discuss OP's situation about her DC commuting. In London to a London uni. There are fantastic world leading engineering schools in London.

University was the making of me and it wasn't because of the education. Everything was about the people I met, the life experience and effectively the socialisation that made me an adult.
I lived in halls and shared 'dumps' for 4 years. I had the time of my life and it changed me from a shy, naive teen to a functioning confident adult. My parents didn't have any money to pay for me and I paid for myself from part time jobs.
University without the socialisation is just another course to add to the list.
I'm a recruiter and director at a large big four consulting firm. Given pretty every young adult has a degree we select our graduates for social skills, life skills, credibility and capability. I've rejected Oxbridge firsts for lacking in these skills several times and gone for those with 2:1s from other universities and non RG who have those skills, display genuine human interest and will delight our clients.

I have trained and mentored young professionals and they don’t need to have moved away for Uni to be great assets. Like you say I’ve worked with grads from former polys who are better than RG first class ones.

Wonder if the “time of your life” would have been so amazing with another £30 - £40k debt to your name which is the sad reality now?

@TooOldForThisNonsense I left with a load of debt. Granted a lot was paid for but my parents were unable to contribute. I worked full time for a year prior to uni to help pay for it and worked while I was there. Was paying it off for years. It was worth it

It’s worth remembering that at some unis there isn’t any accommodation. They were putting York uni students into accommodation in Hull I think. Edinburgh had them sleeping on bunk beds in social spaces. Renting has generally become a nightmare.

Where we live there is only an ‘ex-poly’ which is a leader in the more modern subjects but probably not somewhere you would go for English for example. DD is ASD so not sure what she will do. She can’t tolerate noise and has no interest in socialising. It’s going to be a tricky choice.

It’s so hard for us to get beyond seeing ‘going away’ as the only real or genuine ly best option.

It’s so culturally embedded here and the experience generally loved by previous generations of uni-goers, that we struggle to assess the issues in a balanced and neutral way, and in light of the realities today.

I’m not saying everyone should do one thing or the other …simply thought processes and decisions are very emotionally charged and our thoughts heavily influenced by biases determined by cultural norms and the past.

It’s simply worth being aware of this and trying to see what are the issues that matter and which don’t.

My DC go/are going away to uni. Most of their peers will and my social circle mostly did. So for the DC to not go would be a real break from expectation and many in my position would be really disappointed if their kids stayed at home. But that wouldn’t make it wrong or not the best option. It might be the brave and right choice and one that later they would be extremely pleased about.

We are pack creatures and don’t like to veer away from well-trodden paths. Perhaps we should just look more at the environment and changes and not assume that what was best in the past still is.

And also perhaps we should be aware that if and when we help our DC decide to go away, it might not be helpful to couch it in terms of best, and other options ‘missing out’ etc etc because of the impact this has on re-enforcing these cultural stereotypes which make it hard for others to pick what’s best for them. Many who choose to ‘go away’ have family financial support and other soft-benefits which make it an easier option for them. But when it seems the norm or only real option, those for whom going away will impose ridiculous financial burdens might also choose it as they see it as the only viable and good option. Their peers and families of peers have sent that unhelpful message. Going away isn’t the only or even best option for many.

For lots, going away means family stress for a year or so beforehand and then during the degree whilst they try to scrape together some cash to help support. It can mean students working many hours in term time to the detriment of study and social life or to the detriment of gaining genuine useful for work application experience in holidays. It can mean more difficulty in getting a mortgage later and difficulties in meeting costs when having small children. It might mean less pension contributions and later or poorer retirement. There are a myriad of possibilities. The perceived benefits of independent living, fun experience etc etc might not really stack up against these possible downsides which simply need to be properly weighed.

As ever, the more affluent have more choices. Government funding of loans and cost of living rises work to widen the gap more and mean more, including the pretty affluent simply need to weigh it all a bit more. They might still go away, but based on rational decision making, more and more won’t. Some who do will later realise the choice to go away, for them and their situation wasn’t probably the best.

@LemonShirtsit’s now common to stay at home apparently! Seriously, speak to the uni about her needs and get a quiet hall. It’s probably impossible to control everyone else though at uni or throughout life.

@TooOldForThisNonsense I really dislike the notion that poorer dc cannot go to uni with richer ones. Years ago people who valued education didn’t give a hoot about anyone else at muni who was better off. You do what you have to do and plenty will have a job and, believe me, that sets them up for graduate work.

In working life, dc meet all sorts and it’s utterly wrong to teach dc that they need to stay in their own bubble and avoid others or be frightened of better off students. What has their parents wealth got to do with him? I think uni gives dc a place to grow and accept everyone for what they are. A useful skill for life in my view.

@EffortlessDistraction surely it would be cheaper to run a car than live in halls which would open up all 8 local universities to you?

I think the reason we are balking at students studying at a lesser university for cost reasons is it feels like going back in time to when poorer people had no chance to better their circumstances. My parents came from working class families and studied at RG universities in the late 50s. They came out debt free. That is true social mobility. I still hate Blair for his “I want 50% of young people to get degrees” speech. That policy made it unaffordable for us to fund our brightest.

And agree that many students don't have a uni they can go to close by. I lived in the north east with parents who had just been made redundant from the shipyards when I was off to uni. Despite high grade predictions Newcastle and Durham weren't interested. I had to go 400 miles away for my course.
No one at my university that I knew of lived at home. Even if they grew up commuting distance. Living away from the parental home was considered part and parcel of the concept of university.

@squeakydoggo you don't have to live in a "dump" to socialise and have friends. Lots of commuting students socialise. There are lots of other avenues for personal development. Yes it's fun. DS loved being in halls and all the memories he made. Yes halls are fun. (He would have loved to have gone to Cambridge and lived in accommodation all 3 years but sadly he was rejected).

My DS's confidence grew at university through the debating society turning in from someone who found it nervous to speak up to someone who can debate a point of view and say it in a way that the audience listens. This linked well with his student politics.

I feel we are moving away from OP's situation of London home -> London university

Wombat, in contrast DCs peer group at their selective central London school was very international. High flying parents, well Boris was one, and huge aspirations. The range of destinations was relatively small. Most went to Oxbridge or Ivy, a small number of other US Universities (Stanford, MIT etc) or London. Eleven of DDs friends went to Imperial and five from the school were taking their medical school intercalation there at the same time as DD. I think five of DS' classmates were at LSE at the same time as him.

The drivers were the course and the prestige of the institution. Those most likely to talk about a University experience were those heading for liberal arts courses in the US. Indeed a friend of DDs picked Harvard over Cambridge for maths because it allowed for a very different second subject as a minor.

Some, often those from Britain or Commonwealth countries, took Oxbridge very seriously. Americans and Europeans seemed to consider London Universities as closer equivalents. Their school had old buildings and they were taught in small classes, so oddly London probably offered a greater change from school than Oxbridge might have done. Socially those who did not go to Oxbridge seem to have more diverse friendship groups: friendship groups for both DC in London were very international, whereas DDs friends in Bristol were predominantly British albeit from all over. Several of DS' schools friends did not really enjoy their University, probably reflective of proportion of students in general who never really settle. Reasons varied, but there was no indication that those who stayed in London were any more likely to be unhappy, and plenty really thrived.

It is worth noting that particularly Imperial, but also other London Universities offer good bursaries. Universities want less well off students to be able to afford to go there. Loans exist. Less well off students are not consigned to lesser Universities. The choice is between living at home and so not needing to borrow as much, and perhaps not needing to work p/t so being able to focus on your course or, if there is not a suitable course nearby, aiming for the best course you can get on and borrowing the money. Borrowing an awful lot of money to get "the university experience" is also a choice, but increasingly not an automatic one.

@millie1341 That is because there’s more to the uk than London where living at home and accessing a world class uni is very possible. Others don’t have the same luxury.

@WombatChocolate I take issue with the notion that many dc choose to go away for the experience of purely living away. I think the vast majority choose a course they need and want. If everyone in London only wanted London unis, where would we be? It’s clearly not possible. So yes, some can do this but others simply won’t get in. Then what?

The poorest of all are relatively well off. I do agree it’s the squeezed middle dc that are not. We also dO Not have 50% of 18 year olds going to uni. Tony Blair did not expend the uni sector either. The Cons mostly did - 1992 and all that! Plus we have 50% of young adults with a degree but huge numbers don’t get grad jobs - around 20% each year according to HESA stats. So 70,000. For them and some degrees it’s clearly not worth it but they don’t pay the grad tax much either .

If the DD wants to do engineering in London. Where's best/ideal? I think Imperial, then UCL? But then there's no guarantee you get in.

After this well where is good for engineering? My mind things to Nottingham, bath, Bristol and Loughborough. Like I don't think KCL and QM are all that great for engineering?

Both are good, and other factors come into play like whether they might want to to be at an interdisciplinary University or one with lots of like minded scientists.

Both have their strengths. She should look at the courses offered. And then probably apply for both and see what she is offered.

“50% of young adults with a degree but huge numbers don’t get grad jobs - around 20% each year according to HESA stats. So 70,000. For them and some degrees it’s clearly not worth it but they don’t pay the grad tax much either .”

This is my point really, we as a country are paying for these degrees that don’t lead to graduate employment. If we weren’t we could more easily support the smaller percentage who do need a degree for their eventual career.

And from our London school on one of my kids years 25 went to Birmingham uni, about another 15 to Leeds and Nottingham each and only 2 to London universities, year group of 100

Exactly. It varies. Our local high performing state school (DD did not get a place - did not pray enough) also sends the majority to London to a range of Institutions. . Many parents, either because they did not go to University themselves, or for cultural reasons would not consider anything else. As Wombat suggests DC are very influenced by their peers.

From my experience of this board over almost a decade, there has been quite a dramatic shift in attitudes to places like Imperial. It used to be very negative.

As others have said things have change in recent years. London unis are now 50% international students who themselves have quite a different idea of what uni is like. It's not all mucking in and living in crappy students digs but 5* hotels. We live in zone 2 in London and i would certainly be encouraging DC to apply for the best unis Oxbridge/London. If we live in London then I would recommend they move into halls for 1st year but then live at home. Their commute to uni will be shorter than mine was studying in London and living in a student flat. London unis are now the preserve of the rich Brits and the extraordinarily rich international students.

Assascc,

I disagree. LSE was always hugely international. I was the only Brit on my course many many years ago.

London Universities also have no problems attracting less well off London students. UCL, LSE etc have very good outreach schemes, and initiatives like the Kings Maths School have also contributed. They have also been successful in attracting ethnic minorities. One of DS' friends was from the only Chinese family in his Welsh village. Living in a diverse city appealed.

They have a huge problem attracting less well off northerners. I am sure they would like to change this.

I also would be curious about the roots of your assertion that overseas students live in 5* hotels. As a London landlord I am aware that one of the things to be careful of , especially when renting to students from east and south east Asia, is overoccupancy. More people in the flat than on the tenancy agreement...or allowed by the Local Authority. Studying in London is expensive. Kids will save their families' money where they can.

It might be, but parking is very limited on a lot of campuses and an hour drive each way (most of them are on that limit) doesn't make for much of a social life.

Widening participation initiatives such as contextual offers can work to encourage students to apply to top tier universities, but if the cost of accommodation is too high, it negates a lot of this work. To qualify for significant bursaries and help, families need to have very low incomes. However, there are lots in the incomes above these that won’t qualify and still struggle.

London, Bristol, Durham, Bath spring to mind as expensive. Some people live nearby and can travel. London is probably accessible to the greatest number of people, but the majority of the population can’t travel there in a daily basis - so it’s face the costs or go elsewhere.

London aside, I’d imagine the unis in the Midlands and North have the greatest amounts of students who live at home. Of course some people always live further away, but there are lots of good universities in those areas. London aside, bigger proportions of those living at home are likely to be from less affluent backgrounds. Living away is becoming more and more the preserve if those who are more affluent. Loans were meant to make it accessible to all, but when the full maintenance loans don’t even cover hall accommodation in some of these places, living at home becomes more appealing or the only option. Lots of the upper tier universities also have a culture of students not working at them in term time. This is also a barrier to students who need to work going away to these places.

Many can access a good university by travelling from home, although clearly less choice than if the whole country is available to you via going away. Some however will have to choose the less good uni in terms of reputation or course available because that’s what’s available to them from home.

As a poster upthread said, their children didn’t go to the best schools near them. They couldn’t afford fees for private school and couldn’t afford to live in the best catchment areas, so they went to the local school and managed. It’s the same for university for them. They will have to go to the local one and choose from what it offers.

The point is that lots don’t have the luxury of researching unis and choosing the course that they live the look of or the city they are attracted to, those choices are for those who can pay or aren’t deterred by the signifying debt and probably don’t need to work in term time. Others simply want to go to uni and get a degree but will have to make do with what’s available nearby even if it’s not the perfect course for them or the perfect location. So lots do a degree that isn’t necessarily the best thing for them. They have to stay at home, or perhaps they choose simply not to bother with the degree at all.

If you live in commutable distance of London, you do have more options. Brilliant universities are in reach, if you can get in. It is possible to live away for a year and then travel in or stay at home completely. With so many doing it, you wouldn’t feel you were very much the odd one out. You might feel more like that at some of the older RG unis in the Midlands or North. You might not feel so like at the post-1992 places where more are living at home.

Uni education is polarising. In reality, everything isn’t available to all regardless of income. No wonder there are contrast threads about class at universities and even with contextual offers, a huge struggle to attract a broader mix. It’s not just about academic requirements to get in. It’s also the sheer costs involved which are growing and the sense that some students in certain uni cities will feel very much out of the norm if they are needing to work term-time, when the vast majority don’t.

I see quite often families from London (and those outside) are very quick to dismiss London unis. "Too near" , "too expensive" , "not social". Quite often the London uni's own advice about the student experience, budgeting and finance is just ignored.

DS was considering midlands because he thought he'd be unhappy in London. We kinda pushed him towards London a bit due to the academic side of it and ultimately he was grateful.

Why did the grants system of student finance go away?

University without the socialisation is just another course to add to the list.
I'm a recruiter and director at a large big four consulting firm. Given pretty every young adult has a degree we select our graduates for social skills, life skills, credibility and capability. I've rejected Oxbridge firsts for lacking in these skills several times and gone for those with 2:1s from other universities and non RG who have those skills

Well I can tell you that there are many employers who are very keen to graduates of world class Universities (Oxbridge, Imperial, ETH Zürich etc) exactly because of their skills learned on the course.