St Andrews

[Innisfree]

Happy new year to all 2024 St Andrews hopefuls!

Gearing up for a few months worrying about DS’s UCAS Uni offers. His first choice is St Andrews, then Exeter, Durham, Glasgow and he has had an offer from Newcastle. All for Classical Studies (always small cohorts). He’s at an independent school in Scotland on a scholarship, and predicted 3 As. He’s also contextual as a young carer, helping to look after me (I have MS and, this year, breast cancer). I desperately want him to get some good offers as I am feeling terribly guilty about the level of impact the caring has had on him and his studying both practically and emotionally.

Hoping St Andrews might give us an early ish offer as a home contextual, but nothing yet, though they have been in touch late Dec to say his carer status has been verified. There are so many applying with A star grades though, so not sure how his application will go.

Would love to hear of any St As offers coming through.

Maths rejection - Scottish non contextual. Ds is planning a gap year so may try again.

I am no expert on Classics but Exeter is certainly beautiful. Very glad DS is resilient, OP. It’s a myth that only one uni is right for a student, but sometimes it dies hard

Sorry to hear the news for your family, @TanginaBarrons . BTW I am a former (Russell Group) STEM admissions tutor. I have no problem with gap years for strong STEM students but am in a minority amongst the RG+ (the + including St A’s) admissions tutors on this. However the issue is a concern that Maths will be lost, so having a plan for maintaining it may help to persuade. I even know of a few cases where Oxbridge have admitted Maths students upon reapplication during gap year. Good luck to your DS

@Newgirls do you have a DC at Exeter? DS is refusing to go because he wants to try St As again next year. We visited Exeter but it was absolutely pouring and overcrowded. He couldn't leave fast enough so never really saw it.

No I have one at St Andrews but my youngest loved Exeter. Interesting about the crowded. We went to visit not on an open day as were in the area and had a good look around. The campus is smart and felt creative and interesting. Not crowded at all. Pick a sunny day. We walked to town and really liked that - went to an arts centre which was very good. And then down to the quay where you can rent boats, row, sit by the water having a drink. A place id live.

If he applies to St Andrews again with grades in hand that’s great too. Make sure the personal application is very focused on the course and not too general. Pretty sure that’s how my eldest got in.

Sorry to hear about your DS @Innisfree, but I'm glad he's happy with his options. DD is still waiting... It would really be better if they rejected her by this point - she feels forgotten.

How disappointing with such stellar grades too…

I have spoke at length to St As and Edinburgh admissions. I gleaned a few bits of info.

1. St As - they "take predicted grades with a pinch of salt because so many are made up". Americans and Scots have the grades in hand. It's all about the statement and the extra add ons to differentiate. In DS's subject the lady let slip that there were 3 or 4 to every one place who were barely distinguishable - perfect predicted grades and all the extras you would expect (DofE, school clubs, sports, music etc) - she didn't say how they then chose (my guess, picked out a hat)
2. Edinburgh use software to screen admissions in the first instance and they criticised St As 'direct method' which they implied are less scientific.

@Newgirls I think we should visit again. However, unfortunately his school have always snobbily said he's 'not an Exeter student'. This has been really detrimental to his thinking now he has Exeter and another left. Also a few of his friends somehow have managed to get in to Oxford and St Andrews which has upset him (different subjects).

I’d be interested to know how Edinburgh’s software evaluates personal statements, as that is often going to be the only actual difference between candidates.

I get that recruitment by AI is becoming the norm these days but I do wonder how sophisticated it is.

Jeez thanks school. I know a real mix of people at Exeter what nonsense

@Newgirls exactly this. Not only that but they are sticking by their assessment and telling him to try again next year at Oxbridge. He did brilliantly in his interviews and in his Oxford exam but didn't get an offer so nothing's going to change next year. Grrr!

@BiancaBlank Edinburgh suggested they were far from alone in using software and that St As was outside the norm. No idea if this is true at all. I assume they have some kind of personal interaction in decision making but maybe screen lots out first.

@sunandwaterfalls that school attitude is unforgiveable. Exeter is an excellent uni and also that it is becoming harder and harder for people even with perfect grades to get offers from the "top" unis - Oxbridge, St Andrews, Edin, UCL, Imperial, Durham, Warwick etc. Schools and pupils can be complacent any more.

And really unhelpful of the school to push him to try for Oxbridge again, that should be his decision alone. As for AI versus non-AI - I think pretty much all unis (apart apparently from St Andrews) use it initially to screen out definite nos, then start looking at the PSes from those who've made the longlist as it were. Hence the agonising wait for so many top unis as it takes forever to look at the PSes and make these splitting-hair decisions between one candidate and another.

We visited Exeter Uni last Autumn for the open day. The sun was blazing the skies and there was a real sense of energy, fun and academic focus. It’s a beautiful, green airy campus. DS was quite taken by the fact they have the largest Classics Society of any UK Uni and they appear to be extremely active and regularly organise trips abroad. The Classics lecturers we met were very impressive, especially Dr Emily Hauser and there’s a huge amount of classics research going on which students can contribute to. It’s a world away from Fife, where we live, so DS is looking forward to a bit more sunshine!

I'm going to have one more go at persuading him to give it a chance! My eldest is at St As which also makes it difficult because DS knows the place so well, has even sat in lectures etc and so just set his sights on it. I think he/we assumed if eldest got in so would he.

I have said this before but St A’s told us at an open day before my YP applied that the PS was key. They want to hear a ‘different’ voice - and one that is very much the applicant’s own. Most applicants have excellent predictions and solid extra curricular experience so they want to hear why they are different. My YP had good A level predictions, but fairly average GCSE’s, however a very ‘personal’ PS which didn’t really follow the traditional structure. They are due to graduate this summer - and have embraced St Andrews and all it has to offer.

@Dahliafairy my DS did a very personal statement and wrote it himself. But he writes in a very sophisticated manner (I think they thought an adult wrote it). Plus he was also writing for Oxbridge who have VERY specific requirements. It's so hard to tick everyone's boxes. Next year I think the PS will change which will make it different. But out of interest, how did your YP approach the PS? Mine was told to be reflective, which he was (maybe a bit too much)!

@sunandwaterfalls He applied for Management so styled it as a bit of a business plan. (Think of the Apprentice with a good dose of humour!)Very different and potentially risky but he did get 5 offers. He didn’t have much help from school (non-selective large state school) but maybe that was a good thing!

My dd PS was very focused on the course and her work experience that related to it. Nothing posh a very normal job really. She didn’t apply to Oxbridge as they don’t do her course so she focused it on the St A course. Hope that helps.

@Dahliafairy @Newgirls thanks for the tips. They're real useful.

Dahlia, can I ask how your child has found StA? My DD has offers from both StA and Edin and is struggling to decide.
StA far outranks Edin for student satisfaction and as her mum, I think this will be good if she needs a handhold or student support.
Her concern is the small town - she’s not sporty or outdoorsy and she’s worried if there is enough to do, she doesn’t think she’ll be a big party-goer or drinker. Whereas Edin will have lots going on, outwith the student life.
In some ways, the 2 Unis are polar opposites.
Any advice, or comment on the pros and cons of 4 years in StA?
Thank you!
PS I agree your comments on the PS and StAs take on it. I think there are far too many people still thinking their child needs to put on DoE, hockey captain and piano grade 8, and their volun -tourism trip to “build a school” in order to get an offer.

St A students seem to find ways to amuse themselves with societies and clubs. They do nights out in Dundee and Edin sometimes. You bump into a lot of people all the time as it so small.

Edin Uni is so spread out it’s very different. More to do for sure but can mean you have to be good at finding your people

@Dotdashdash I have a dc at Edinburgh and one considering St Andrews for next year - hence me reading this thread. Edin dc loves it, she didn't want the small-town vibe of St Andrews (plus 25% American students) as she thought it would be claustrophobic and Edin has absolutely proved the right choice for her. However, for others a small-town vibe may be perfect. I don't think it's true it's hard to find your tribe at Edin, you meet people in halls, at lectures, dc is involved in a ton of societies and volunteering programmes and made friends within days of joining and has enjoyed loads of very exciting opportunities, including attending an Ivy League for third year next year. I'd say go with whether you fancy a big city or a cosy town, they're both great in different ways, Good luck whichever your dc decides

@Dotdashdash He has had the best time! Doesn’t drink and is not a big party goer but has had an active social life and got involved with lots of clubs and societies - he has always been busy! He has friends from all backgrounds and nationalities and I think the small town atmosphere has really helped his confidence to blossom. He takes trips into Edinburgh if it’s bigger shops he’s after and has enjoyed supporting Dundee United during his time there.
The downsides? Finding accommodation can be stressful and expensive and it’s not a place for us that you can just ‘nip’ to or from for quick visit. He’s off to Leeds for a masters - it will certainly be different!

Thanks to you both. She going to the Edin offer holders day next week and will then decide.
She’d like to take her car with her and that’s not something that fits with Edin! But she could to StA and can then get out and about round Scotland.