UCL or Durham for Stem degree

[Uniquestions]

My DS is in year 13. Thinks his application to Oxford is written off so is down to looking at UCL or Durham (assuming he gets offers ) for chemistry

we live about 2 hours from UCL by train or 6+ hours drive to Durham.

he’s going back and fore about which to put as his firm choice. Obviously accommodation costs in London are going to be higher but I can see a trip a term up to drop him off /visit in Durham is going to be several hundred pounds by the time you factor in petrol/hotel/food etc.

for me I think accommodation should really be taken into consideration. Even if he gets halls the first year, that still leaves subsequent years to worry about.

He thinks UCL is a better reputation internationally but Durham is more of a university feel and he would get a more enjoyable university ‘experience’

i wondered if anyone’s child has had to make a similar choice and what swayed them.

Thanks!

Well yes UCL does have a better reputation. And to me London seems a much better place to live than Durham.

Why would you think London seems a much better place to live than Durham - specifically for a student ?

I went to uni in London and loved it.

DD had just the same choice and went with UCL. It was a combo of the course and being so far from home that swayed DD's decision. DD had also applied to Oxford.

Yes accommodation costs are higher than Durham, however there is still very much a university experience at UCL (I went there too, back in the day).

Close family friends had kids in Durham and they enjoyed it, but it's a hell of a journey from here, and it was lovely to catch up with DD for Sunday lunch in London every month or so.

DD1 went to Durham and loved it. She'd say that Durham is a much better place to live than London.😀 So there you have the opposite view.

We live close to London and she loved going in, but wouldn't want to live there.

There's a long running thread for Durham that you can ask questions on.
Durham University | Mumsnet

The advantage dd found was that as someone who wasn't socially confident the college system does give a smaller group to get to know. She made some lovely friends there and was very active (Secretary) in one of the university societies.

I'd suggest he looks round both and sees what happens. Durham does tend to be late with offers though.

Edited to say: Yes it was a distance to go. We had the arrangement that we'd drive her up and back at the beginning and end of the year, but not each term. That worked well. A lot of people were from similar distance to us (6 hours drive, but slightly less by train), which means it doesn't feel as bad as if everyone else is much more local.
We visited twice and stayed at an air b&b which wasn't silly prices.

@Uniquestions if you haven't done so already, I'd highly recommend visiting Durham so you and your DS can really see what it - both the city and the university/colleges - is really like, and how completely different it is to London.

I'd also recommend your DS focuses upon where he'd like to spend 3/4 years living/studying as opposed to international reputation. UCL and Durham are pretty similar in that respect IMO (neither are Oxbridge) and is international reputation really going to be a big factor in future life choices anyway.

Durham also has one of the top ranked Chemistry schools in the country

I wouldn't have fancied living in London as a student and have friends whose DCs have not enjoyed it (specifically Imperial)
I am biased though because I went to Durham and think it's a great university experience! Lots of graduates move to London anyway. Visiting both is a good shout - the post offer open days at Durham are great although not sure if you need to put your choices before these.

Thanks all! As I expected there are just pros and cons to each. We did the Durham open day - in the pouring rain- so it was literally a talk and a look at St Mary’s halls. Didn’t visit the town itself at all

missed the subject open day for UCL but my son and a friend did the generic campus tour so didn’t see any specific chemistry labs or halls.

I suppose it might come down to whether there is a difference in the offers!

he also applied to Nottingham but it really didn’t click for him on the open day - which he was surprised at.

if you're looking at London and Stem,
have you thought about Imperial
College? Fantastic world
class and considered in the same league as Cambridge for Stem

I have a DS at UCL and a nephew at Durham. The accommodation costs are more in London but not by much, both are v expensive, neither is a ‘cheap’ option.

Nephew in Durham does not enjoy living in Durham, he had offers from London (Kings) and Edinburgh and wishes he had taken one of those. DS1 in London is loving living in central London with all it offers.

And to me London seems a much better place to live than Durham.

And to me, Durham is a much better place to live in than London. London is nice to visit, and nice to leave.

You will have quite different experiences. I went to UCL. You are living in a big city. There is more variation of things to do but alongside that more travelling and expense. Most students will live a bus/tube ride away from second year onwards. It's more 'real life'. Many students continue to live there after graduating.

Durham is way smaller. You will go out to the same places lots but will mostly be able to walk around. My friend went there. You constantly bump into people you know as you walk around the town (not just the uni). Less choice of nightlife but much cheaper. More of a 'bubble'. Most students leave after graduating.

I don't know about the specific course, but both are great unis. I would pick the one he prefers to live at for 3/4 years.

They're very different, obviously. As an alumnus of both I think he's right to think about what he's hoping for from the undergrad experience. Durham is no longer tiny (as it was in the mid-80s when I was there and 3 year college accommodation was guaranteed) but it's a small town dominated by the university and the whole experience can be very intense as well as hugely enjoyable. I did UG at Durham and MSc at UCL. It was the right way round for me as I really benefited from the collegiate set up and being well away from home at 18. At post-grad level being in London suited me much better.

Having walked around imperial, snuck in (hehe). and just walked around Kensington. It's so lovely.

I love Kensington

Uck might be better regarded internationally, but durham is better regarded in the uk

If there is a chance they will end up working in STEM subjects then without doubt they need to go to the university with the best reputation for the subject they want to study. It is a competitive field and the university name matters. I would echo the Imperial suggestion and go with UCL over Durham for chemistry any day of the week. STEM subjects are changing rapidly and the quality of the course matters.

Why would a university be held in more regard internationally then domestically?

Thanks for all the new views. My understanding is also that UCL is 8th in world uni rankings (well one set!) and Durham is well regarded in Uk I think he would want to progress and do a phd and I agree that I thInk in a way it would be good to do Durham undergraduate then UCL post grad. But it is absolutely up to my son

i don’t want to sway him at all just give him objective views. I think lingering in the background for me is accommodation. He’s not unsociable but I can see him being a bit reticent to put himself forward for house shares. I think there is a lot of private hall provision in London - although super expensive

There's nothing between Durham and UCL in terms of their School of Chemistry rankings.

And your first sentence is just plain wrong - 1000s of people have successful careers in STEM without having attended Cambridge, which is generally the university with the best reputation for STEM subjects.

From previous discussions on here. I feel that university ranking or reputation isn't really a deciding factor anymore due to uni blind recruitment?

DD wasn't impressed by the chemistry labs at Durham compared to the several others we have visited. We haven't visited any London unis but I imagine their labs are funded better?

As a STEM academic I think Durham and UCL are both fine choices. Durham ranks more highly in the Complete University Guide; UCL has greater research power as reflected in the 2021 REF, but this does not necessarily translate to benefits for undergraduates. Both can prepare him for a great career or postgraduate study at top institutions - the latter will simply depend on how well he does and how proactive he is at pursuing opportunities to develop himself. So I would not worry about rankings.

Your DS should choose the place where he thinks and feels he will be most likely to thrive. IMO the collegiate system at Durham may be easier for an introvert to navigate, but it is really up to him. The travel concerns are not very significant in the greater scheme of things.

I also wonder whether DS might be interested in Imperial? What are his other two choices?

I have a certain amount bias towards Durham as I came here for uni and am still here many years later.

However, objectively, both are good universities with good reputations. Any quibbling is really nitpicking and which one they go to will really not make any difference long term for career purposes. What they need to think about is where they want to live for 3 or more years and that is where there is a huge difference. Durham is small, compact, you can walk everywhere, it takes minutes to feel as though you are in the countryside and indeed the actual rural countryside is easily reached. But nightlife is more limited, you need to go to Newcastle for more of a choice and for a choice of shops too.

Whereas London is London.

Entirely depends on what they like in life.

It's the standard/quality of teaching that matters, not the quality of the labs.

The practicals undertaken during a undergraduate chemistry degree really aren't that complex

@poetryandwine
thanks for your views

unless he changed them after discussing with us it was
oxford
UCL
durham
Nottingham - he wrote off after open day
bath - too local!

my gut feeling is that he thinks UCL would be more prestigious but Durham would be more of a traditional university experience. So many people talk of the nurturing collegiate experience there.

selfishly I could make it work to see him relatively often if UCL as I can work in London but I just want him to be happy and I think Durham ticks more boxes there

but who knows. He could get an Oxford offer!