Exeter uni reassurance please!

[seymour]

Hi there, my daughter just got into Exeter uni through clearing but while she liked it when she visited ahead of the application process, she didn’t plump for it as her first choice as she felt it was quite “posh” and wasn’t sure if she would fit in. We are from a big city and she went to a comprehensive. Not trying to cause offence to anyone from a privileged background btw, we very much take every person as we find them, as does my daughter but just wondered if anyone could share their kids’ experiences? Thanks so much.

I think choosing a private school
is all about “fit” for the child. Where will
they thrive? It’s not about thinking you have given them a massive advantage over others. Certainly not necessarily over grammars! However the schools all have different usps and that’s what parents consider.

Choosing a private school is not even an option for the vast majority of the population who do not have tens of thousands to pay for it. “Fit” is what is available via the state.

You can describe motivation however you like, but the de facto outcome is unearned privilege.

And also grammars are not available to 90-odd % of the UK population.

😊 @sunlighter

To be fair OP, I also visited Exeter with one of mine a few years ago and I admit we were struck by how 'white' it was in the city itself. But, in the end, I guess it's not surprising - it's Exeter, not Ealing! We went over the summer so the campus was empty (which was a bit daft in retrospect). But anyway, I'm sure it will be fine. There will be thousands of students from all regions and backgrounds. They find their friends and that's it.

I’m sure you’re right, thanks @sunlighter Inthink it was just not what she was used to but that’s ok!

GodessOfThunder your buzz word appears to be unearned privilege. On a lighter note, after discussing this thread with my “privileged “ DS. He strongly disagrees that it was unearned or a privilege. He maintains that it was “f@*cking hard work” compared to the work load his state educated mates had during the pandemic. And all a waste of time since their GCSEs were cancelled.

Call it a “buzzword” if you like, but it’s a fairly widely used term among serious academics studying inequality and its causes and effects. Your own credentials are…?

With all due respect to your son, the big gains in social mobility in this country weren’t based on the POV of a single teenager.

Interesting narrative.
It could be used to support abolishing private schools or sustain them ;)

Yeah, very true @GodessOfThunder and that probably reflects my ambivalent feelings towards them. I do think you make some valid points, but I also think you have over-egged those points…

I used to work in educational research but my field was more around the primary to secondary transfer so personally I'm actually more interested in the grammar school debate than the private school one.

That’s no doubt fair :)

Out of interest, what’s your perspective on grammar schools? Not looking to kick off on another tangent, just interested.

Short answer: not a fan.
Slightly longer answer: I think it's possible to argue that the original aim of them (academic education for the poor) was genuinely well-intentioned, but it's impossible hard to argue that they fulfil that objective now.

We should probably leave it there so as not to go too tangential. Apologies @seymour

@thing47 no apology needed. Enjoying the debate!

I’m sorry to disappoint you but I’m a proper northerner from a working class family. My grandparents worked in proper heavy industry, working for the company. Staunch socialists. My parents were grammar school educated in the 1940s/50s which allowed them to move up the social ladder. They produced 3 daughters who have 4 degrees and a phd between them all three of us can use the term Dr. We are one of the success stories of the post war government. We have all worked for the NHS or in research for most of our working lives. Most of our generation in the family have gone onto higher education.
I believe in choice though, not necessarily privilege. My DS’s school is very similar to my comprehensive school. Same ethos and quality of teaching. Similar demographic of pupils.
Back in the 1970s people only sent their children to private school when they were not clever enough to pass the 11+. Grammar schools were closed 2yrs before I was due to take 11+ but the grammar was converted to my comp school so we had the benefit of many of the staff. The rest took up posts in the sixth form college next door. The intake area became “desirable” and house prices super inflated. My parents gave us the option to go to grant assisted grammar schools but there was a lot of travel.
The comp had a system of education apartheid, protecting the clever ones from the not so clever ( very unfare ). At least at my DS’s private school there is some fluidity in the setting.
So from dark satanic mills to rural midlands. My DSis lives in the republic of South Yorkshire and is a staunch Labour voter despite her profession and being education in one of the posh unis. My other sis spent a number of years in climate research and lives in the SW so is a green liberal. I’m undecided. I’m now retired so happy to vote for whoever has the best plan for my pension.
At 60 I’ve seen the best and the worst of every government since the late sixties. I cannot think of any particular high spot, apart from the sex discrimination act and it’s replacement equality act ( although some may argue that it has lead to some difficult interpretation).
When I entered Uni there was still discrimination towards women, very subtle so the admissions tutors thought they had got away with it. No one was worried about how posh people were, there was still a very socialist vibe going on. It was only a few years on from the big student sit ins.
Now students are more concerned about whether they have a room with an en-suite and bloody pronouns.
I had friends who spent months camping at Greenham Common protesting about US nuclear warheads. I’m not sure they had any facilities other than a spade and a cheap roll of tissue.
You wanted my background you have it.
I chose to work primarily for the NHS and forgo at least double the income in the private sector. I also chose to educate my DS privately for lots of reasons, perhaps the main reason was it facilitated the hours I needed to work like many of the professionals who sent their children there.

thing47 selective academic entry to any school grammar, state or private has become big business for the tutoring industry. My DS was at an academically selective school, if at any time I had thought it necessary to employ a tutor I would have withdrawn him and he would have gone to the state alternative.
At least 25% of his year were having some sort of tutoring throughout their education. For some it meant higher grades but for most it was just a way of keeping their heads above water.
I saw a figure a couple of days ago that suggested that 30% of children across all settings are being tutored. So despite state education being “free” many parents are paying up to £30+ an hour for tutoring.
So it’s not only the private parents who are paying but many state parents are too. I think we need to ask why (probably) educated parents feel the need to supplement or pay outright for their children’s education. And it is not, for most, to show off. The social climbers stick out like sore thumbs in most private schools. I’m talking about the educated parents who sacrifice a comfortable life style to educate their children. It doesn’t make sense but tutoring franchises are popping up all over the place.

@MidLifeCrisis007 good
for her! Can’t imagine anyone not needing a student loan given tuition fees plus living costs.

Funnily enough DD had a friend over today - just beginning to look at uni applications, super smart but doesn't get much support / help at home. She is coming on a couple of open day trips with us where their unis of interest coincide. She said she would have to research which unis have high numbers of private school DC because she didn't discover this about Exeter until after she had "wasted time" looking at courses there.

I think this is quite a common attitude (amongst DC around here at least), and it's not fear or chippiness or jealousy, just a preference for where she thinks she will find a dynamic and demographic that will suit her best. I imagine she is looking for more ethnic diversity, more social diversity, more regional accents. Fair enough, and no skin off the nose of private school students who can happily apply to their preferred unis too.

(NB we are in Wales though, where there is a bit more to it imo)

It’s interesting to see the terms used across this thread by private school defenders (who seem to be mostly the parents of the privately schooled) to describe the state schooled. Meaning is constructed through linguistic binaries, and, as such, the language they use is revealing of their hierarchical perspective.

Fearful (state) vs confidence (private)
Chippy (state) vs affable (private)
Jealous (state) vs proud (private)

Yet, in clustering together at “posh” universities, such as Exeter and Durham, the privately educated could be seen to be exhibiting the same characteristics. This, it could be argued, undermines the truth claims of the private school fans on this thread.

<Yawn>
Why don't you start your own thread about so-called 'posh universities' Godess, rather than derailing this one with your relentless Marxism?

Funnily enough I've just returned from Exeter after dropping our DC off for their 3rd year. No sign of these so-called clusters anywhere!

Our DC (yes, privately educated, god forbid, the horror!) is sharing with a mixture of friends including the daughter of a European diplomat and someone from a single-parent first-generation immigrant family whose mother works in a care home. None of them give a flying f*ck which school anyone went to, and as far as I can see, they all love each other to bits and are helpful and supportive of one another in times of need.

Seriously, so many of these so-called 'issues' are made up as clickbait for dubious new rags like The Tab etc!

“yawn”

Clearly it’s getting on for your bedtime :)

There are so many Welsh students at Exeter. Good to have as friends as they have the most disposable income 😂

Also a lot of locals, so yes very white, Devon is, but working class and with super Devon accents. Exeter gives contextual to local students.

There are so many Welsh students at Exeter. Good to have as friends as they have the most disposable income 😂

Speaking as a parent, thank you Welsh Govt! 🙏

They are only about 4% of undergraduates though at Exeter. (Not that she is particularly looking for a big Welsh community, I don't think.)

I meant more that Wales is left of centre politically and there are perhaps stronger feelings towards England in general, and privileged English people in particular, than might be found elsewhere. Plus much less of a tradition of private education, far fewer private schools per head, and no grammars.

At just over 4% an over-representation of undergrads from Wales at Exeter then @pintery 😀

Exeter is really rough. There will be some kids from public schools, like at every university, but overall it's a very grotty, full of graffiti, cheap postwar architecture type of place where every subway/multistory car park reaks of urine, with many homeless people. I live just outside Exeter and much prefer Plymouth to Exeter, and Plymouth is not a bed of roses either. If you are a bit streetsmart and used to gritty city life, that will be a v good think.

'thing'. If you can spell, that will be even better. There obviously are some nice things in Exeter (the Vue cinema has comfy seats!) but I truly never get a posh vibe there, unfortunately. I mean, Exeter doesn't even gave a Jack Wills store!

I'm not sure how meaningful that is to a Welsh student who is part of a minority of 4% 😂

She is not looking for a big Welsh contingent anyway, but we were talking about numbers, and Welsh students do not make up a large section of the Exeter undergrad population.

I'm surprised it's not higher given that Exeter is one of just a few RG universities within striking distance of South Wales. But then if you are recruiting 30+% from private schools maybe that will have an effect with so few Welsh DC in private education.