Exeter uni reassurance please!

[seymour]

Hi there, my daughter just got into Exeter uni through clearing but while she liked it when she visited ahead of the application process, she didn’t plump for it as her first choice as she felt it was quite “posh” and wasn’t sure if she would fit in. We are from a big city and she went to a comprehensive. Not trying to cause offence to anyone from a privileged background btw, we very much take every person as we find them, as does my daughter but just wondered if anyone could share their kids’ experiences? Thanks so much.

Private education is unearned privilege. I’m v happy to concede that. It doesn’t mean that privately educated kids are identifiably arrogant and excluding.

I don’t think I have sniped. I have acknowledged the privilege. I know many of us choose private schools for reasons such as location, grades and not ‘snobbery’ but the end result is of course a social ‘leg-up’ with networking opportunities at the end etc. I think the advantage will slowly diminish but it’s undoubtedly there now. During Covid the advantage was stark.

But I do think that not everybody who is privately-educated is a stuck-up arrogant snob. There are plenty of us in the public sector working with diverse people and getting on ok. Some of us are even non-white kids of immigrants who would never be thought of us posh.

What do you think of bursary kids? My daughter is really good friends with twins whose parents own a Turkish takeaway. Is their friendship an anomaly. They seem to get on just fine and all three gain from the friendship. It would be a shame if these kinds of relationships were prevented by preconceptions don’t you think. I do wonder how it must feel to be a bursary student. They always seem happy to embrace the opportunity but who knows what they feel inside.

And there are genuinely lots of insecure and anxious private school kids. Just like in the state sector. I wonder even if some kinds of anxiety is higher due to academic expectations.

Thank you to everyone who has given me words of encouragement. For what it’s worth, I think @ReallyNoNeed hits the nail on the head. The privilege and entrenched inequality needs to be acknowledged. The stats speak for themselves in terms of grades and connections and job opportunities. That’s presumably the reason those that can send their kids there in the first place. However that doesn’t mean all those kids are arrogant etc. Once again, treat as you find! @Angrymum22 my daughter is also polite and can maintain eye contact etc. There are plenty of young people from her inner city comprehensive, however, who struggle with communication due to their upbringing, neglect etc. The school tries its best. Who is lobbing insults in the streets?! There are plenty of poorly behaved privately educated people around as well, look no further than the Bullingdon Club and Boris Johnson!

The Bullingdon Club is such a tiny minority at Oxford. What is the point of getting upset about them? You won’t find your DD is anywhere near these types of men at Exeter. Worry not. Far more badly behaved on the streets. As witnessed every day in London! Doubt if they are former Bullies!

To answer your question about bursaries….

Pupils receiving are often brought up by commenters defending private schools, along with the trope of the “ordinary parent scrimping and saving to do the best for their child”.

My response is that bursaries are too small and scarce to affect overall the overall exclusivity of the private school sector substantially, as this recent study from UCL concluded.

They in no way excuse the existence of private schools and the damaging structural inequality they perpetuate.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/31/private-school-bursaries-still-too-scarce-to-tackle-inequality

I didn’t mention bursaries to excuse the inequality. But to ask the question, are these children also ‘arrogant snobs’ and to be tarred with the same brush as many have done here? Sorry if my point was not clear.

I haven’t used the words “arrogant snobs” in any of my posts. If there a descriptor I have used you’d like to query let me know which one.

Ah ok. Apologies. Never mind.

@TizerorFizz Oh I know, that was an extreme example just to illustrate a point - it was a direct response to a poster who seemed to imply that only state school kids can be bad-mannered and poorly behaved. Not at all concerned about any groups like that at uni, if there were any, I’m sure most other students from all types of school would be horrified!

@GodessOfThunder
Out of interest, is it only private education that should be scrapped, or grammar schools as well. Is it just the paying for education you have an issue with?

All of the remaining grammar schools should be scrapped, yes, in line with the majority of the UK.

@GodessOfThunder - I have nothing to do with Exeter uni, but my god .... how do you get through life? I saw you on another thread recently about someone looking at uni options. Your one and only comment for that OP was "You must have a lot of money." 😐Seriously, What is wrong with you? I bet there's not a single living person at Exeter Uni who has your limited outlook and boorish prejudice. Even the 18 year-olds will be more nuanced in their understanding of life.

By “boorish prejudice”, I think you mean rightfully and accurately critiquing the inequality fostered by private schools.

Sorry if I don’t just roll over….

You talk about 'private schools' as if they are one and all the same. You do realise, there is just as much differential in the private sector as in the state? As if it's ever as simple as 'going to private school.' It depends on the school ffs!

Privilege is a far more multi-faceted issue than 'private school.' This is obvious to anyone.

Whilst privately-educated groups can appear intimidating to some, people need to understand that most individuals are ok. Not perfect but decent, just like state-schooled people!

It is embarrassingly narrow-minded and reductive to judge everyone just based on one criterion: their schooling.

The wealthiest private school student I know is in a great relationship with a girl with no money on the same course at university. Despite being the son of millionaires, his lovely parents have told him to get a loan out and a job. Which he has done. He meal-plans and budgets along with his state-educated girlfriend.

It is simply not an issue for either of them. It seems that young people have fewer prejudices and are able to mix better than many adults!

‘Your one and only comment for that OP was "You must have a lot of money.’

Goodness. What a churlish comment from them.

OP I think your daughter will be just fine at Exeter. You sound great and open-minded and will support her through this!

I have never claimed that privilege isn’t a more multi-faceted issue. You just invented that I suggested it was as a straw man.

Yes, we could debate the nuances of different private schools, but it wouldn’t change the weight of evidence supporting the broad points I have made, and the need to get rid of these type of institutions.

It was in response to someone investigating sending their DC from the UK to study in the US for a medical degree (and no, before you mention it, a sports scholarship or any other kind was not mentioned). The cost of that, by any definition, requires someone to have a lot of money.

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word “churlish”.

I know what it means thanks.

I think you need to separate the two issues. The inequality of the private school system, its stronghold on certain careers and the unfair power imbalance, and the idea that individuals are all of a certain unpleasant and entitled type.

It’s quite amusing that we have to listen to conservatives and their organs in the media frequently undeservedly lambast “benefit scrounges”, immigrants, people who work from home, “lefty lawyers”, “hoodies”, the black community (re. the Tory London mayoral candidate) and so on and so on.

Yet when a couple of posters here dare to question the type of character nurtured by private schools and the social injustice these institutions propagate, the conservatives on Mumsnet can’t take the heat and descend into sniping and straw men.

That is a fair comment.

If you re-read my post from 16.01 yesterday though, I never suggest all are* *of a particular character type. I accept some do not have these characteristics. Another poster went further than I did.

I think unequal resources is the bigger issue more than anything in terms of state and private school kids at university.

The main sniping has come from you. You will not be able to see it though.

And I doubt many here think the DM stuff in your first paragraph. You make many assumptions including about voting habits which are incorrect for me at least.

And not many private school people I know support the likes of Boris et al. He is part of a group of people I cannot stand. Thankfully I have no friends like that. Those types tend to keep to themselves.

You are making way too many assumptions for this to be an intelligent debate.

@GodessOfThunder - You could get rid of private schools tomorrow. Some people will always be wealthier than others and the privileges this entails will just manifest in other ways. This is obvious.

The fact is, state education in the U.K. is a postcode lottery. Those with the means, can move into the prestigious catchment areas - often the cost of property / stamp duty costs more than school fees.

Grammar schools are also a postcode lottery.

Who is more 'privileged?' A child who achieves top grades in a state school in a safe area in the Home Counties with two university-educated parents. Or a child from inner London whose parents decided to pay for school to avoid their local comp due to stabbings?

Parental education carries more weight and 'social capital' than school sector. You see it all the time on the Oxbridge chats - posters making a point of saying their DC got in from an 'ordinary comp', only to later drop in that they themselves are Oxbridge educated!

I assume you are not from London @GodessOfThunder because, if you were, you would know that the majority in the very top London independents are from immigrant / non-white British backgrounds. Who is more 'privileged' in societal terms - a non-white child at a London private school, or a white child from an expensive part of Surrey or similar, ie. the catchment for a school with a catchment of pupils very similar to her?

Not all comprehensives are diverse. In white, middle class areas they will reflect that. It totally depends on location and catchment.

As for boarding schools, I would argue the privilege of these is debatable. They may suit a certain type of child. But I'm sure the majority of children, if asked, would be terrified at the prospect of living away from home at the age of 13, 11 or even 7. I'm sure you've heard of the emotional trauma reported by people who describe themselves as 'boarding school survivors.' Is this a privilege? Don't most kids just want to go home at 4pm to their own space and family? These children may come across as more 'confident' because they have had to be! No choice.

Anyway, once they graduate who cares where they went to school?

OP I apologise if I was implying that state education doesn’t address behaviour. I was trying to offset the gross generalisations offered by GodessOfThunder. They continually lump all privately educated students under the same umbrella. I think your DD will be surprised just how normal most of them are in the same way that most state educated are not yobs.
It is not the fault of either the child who has or the child who has not. As individuals we cannot do anything to change the situation apart from electing a government who is likely to make the most change. In the past 50 years neither Labour or conservative governments have successfully solved the problem. With the cost of living crisis many able students are unwilling/unable to commit to a lifetime of debt. So yet again those that have, are at an advantage.
I don’t come from a super wealthy background, but benefitted from a higher education.
What we do need now is a more robust and organised route into quality apprenticeships and degree apprenticeships. We have lost a whole section of skilled workers when Tony Blair promised them the world by improving access to degree courses.
My DS is planning to apply to Uni but I would prefer him do an apprenticeship. The route to high income would be far quicker.