Complete change of plan

[mrsconradfisher]

Very long story but DS has wanted Loughborough Sports Science forever. Got rejected back in May. Was going to attempt to try again next year but got AAB yesterday so no chance now. He has a place at Birmingham but it’s never been what he wanted however has really tried being positive about it. We went out yesterday and bought some bits to take with him and he booked his accommodation this morning.

Then has suddenly broke down in tears and says he doesn’t think he actually wants to go now. He got a B in PE and is now doubting his ability to even do the subject let alone keep up at Birmingham. He is a real homebody who isn’t interested in drinking/partying. Our local Uni (UEA) has spaces in clearing for a similar course, PE, Sport and Health so he called and been offered a place.

He has until tomorrow at 4pm to decide what to do. It’s going to be a complete logistical nightmare to sort out everything with Birmingham and it also seems crazy turning down a RG uni for a very different course but I feel like I need to listen to what he is saying.

He’d simply commute in from where we live so could keep his job, his girlfriend (of 4 years) and continue with the football training that he does.

Any negatives?

Birmingham is n’t the right place for him if he wants to go to university this year. Like others I would question his decision not to do a gap year just because the door to Loughborough is closed, however if he has no plans for that year out, he may feel as though he needs to go to university to be moving forwards with his life.
The major caveat to the course at UEA is that it will narrow his future options and ambitions away from the science based aspects of sports science which is what most interests him. IMO that outweighs perceived prestige from rankings etc. If he is keen to an MSc at say Loughborough or Bath, then he should briefly look at those postgraduate courses and decide whether the UEA undergraduate course would prepare for him the MSc option he prefers.

Also worth considering that a year abroad, attractive as it sounds, would mean 5 years rather than 4 years if he also wants to do an MSc.
Not wanting to complicate things but there are other options in clearing including Exeter and also Lancaster. The latter despite distance from home otherwise seems good fit for him.

A few things stood out to me...

Turning down Surrey because of lower grade requirements even though the course is good and he liked it - why? My dd chose a degree at an ex poly with lower grade requirements rather than a red brick in the same city (against the advice of teachers) simply because the degree was more suitable for what she wanted to do. It has not held her back one jot - she is now working in exactly the job she wanted.

Choosing UEA because of the fact they offer a year in industry. Year in industry is definitely a good thing, but the majority of unis give little help with finding the placement. It's all down to the student and involves dozens of job applications and interviews/rejections.

Having a year out - this is not a failure at all. My very high achieving DS went off to uni despite having a few last minute doubts about the degree he had chosen. After a week he realised he'd made a mistake but stuck it out til Christmas then left (devastated because he thought he'd let us/his school down). He spent the rest of the year working in numerous jobs via a temp agency, went on a great month long holiday, and went to a different uni that Sept. He was a year older, way more mature and totally ready for it. He won awards for his achievements, got the top result in his year. He's said to me many times that the year out was the making of him, and he thinks all 18 year olds should have one!

I feel like in your son's case the year out would probably be the best option. It seems like he's scrabbling around trying to make a decision and needs to take a breather. The year need not be wasted - he could focus on building his work experience/CV which will be hugely helpful.

Hi mrsc. Sorry it's been so tough. I mean, you know I am a Birmingham fan! Lots on MN who have kids there recommend it but it doesn't seem to help. Honestly, I had fears about DS going to a big, sprawling city , too. But Birmingham Uni is not at all intimidating. It's not like going to Manchester or Glasgow. Its much more self contained. I think it's a warm hug of a university. But, if something goes wrong in the first few weeks , he will definitely blame Birmingham and himself for the situation. My DS had some issues with his course and was annoyed with himself as the warning signs had been there at open days. But he didn't blame the place, as he had really wanted to go to Birmingham and so perhaps been blind to other issues. Any problems your DS comes up against will probably be magnified for him because of his initial doubts.

But he's not feeling it A lot of that as clary says is about a grieving process re Loughborough. He does seem a bit obsessive about outcomes and 'the best'. I wonder how much of this is all a generalised anxiety about growing up, moving on, the future, his abilities?

What accommodation did he choose?

As a side note, the gf is new information. How much of this is tied up in fear of leaving her behind?

It will be impossible to get through to an 18 year old but his girlfriend probably shouldn't be a major consideration. I say this as a fifty something who had a boyfriend at home when started University. It lasted til Christmas.
On a different note - all those years ago I tumbled into University with no plans and meandered through life in worthwhile but low paid non graduate jobs (Personality flaw as my peers did really well!). Your ds does have a plan of sorts through the nature of the degree he is choosing. Maybe pick the course that fits best after doing a simple pros and cons list? Also, round start year.
Easy to say from the outside I know...

As someone who turned down going away for uni and going to uea (my local uni), I'd urge caution
Not because of the uni- it was great. But because now nearly twenty years on I wish I'd gone away and had the typical experiences all my friends went away to Uni I only had my boyfriend. Didn't make any friends as they were all sharing the experience of being away together. It was a very lonely time in my life.

Unusual that none of his friends are going to uni and his gf is starting full time work - does he have any peers that he can relate to on the ‘leaving their tiny village’ front?

My DS graduated from UEA on their PE course last year, after turning down a place at Birmingham on their SPECS course. His ambition has always been teaching though and he secured a salaried school based teacher training place (almost unheard of for PE) and is now qualified. For him the course at UEA was much better. It is less science focused for sure, but highly regarded for its more applied focus. He has friends who did the PESH variant who picked more science based modules/dissertation topics, and some who had fantastic years abroad inc Australia. At least one has stayed on to do a science masters.

He also much preferred the UEA campus to Birmingham. If your DS plays sport it is also great, lots of clubs and teams. Probably not quite the same standard as Birmingham so more opportunities for involvement if you are a recreational player. My DS was 1st team captain in one of the major UEA sports in his final year and his whole social life evolved around the club and his friends from it.

It was a lovely city to be a student in - you are lucky to live close as it is a great part of the country. There will be plenty of students who commute in - for many this is the most sensible financial option - but getting involved in clubs or societies will help compensate for not getting the halls experience. One of DS'd Y3 housemates was local who lived at home for 2 years but wanted a house share for their final year.

Let me know if you want any more info.

OP, I have followed the story of your DS throughout your threads. To a dispassionate observer a gap year seems the obvious answer. He has never been sure about Birmingham, he has reservations about UEA. These are objectively 'good' opportunities, he may grow to see that or come to a more concrete decision that they are definitely not for him. Or he may find somewhere else, you said fairly late in the day there were courses he hadn't really properly considered or researched. And a year out will give the girlfriend relationship another year to mature/end. Rejecting Surrey because he thinks it's beneath him suggests he could do with some more maturity in decision making (as could many at that age!! definitely not unusual). Thousands of students attend courses with grades way above the entrance tariff, it's about what is right for you.
Best of luck with it all.

Wow loads of replies, will try to reply the best I can.

He’s been with his girlfriend nearly 4 years so as much as I agree it shouldn’t be taken in to consideration it’s hard at 18. She is actually not asking him to stay at all and totally gets why he needs to go. His cohort was tiny at 6th form, there were around 60 at the start of Y12 but many have dropped out leaving around 40. I think out of that 40, 6 including him were aiming for Uni and none of his friendship group. They are all doing apprenticeships, working in family business and one is hopefully joining the police. So no no one else that is going to Uni.

He did look at the MSc at Loughborough and for most of the courses he could still do them with going to the UEA. Doesn’t stop my nagging doubt that he is going to regret it.

I agree that a gap year at this point is the ideal solution but he has nothing lined up (his job is seasonal so can’t do that all year) and he feels like the year will be wasted.
Plus I’m not sure what it will achieve as the B he got in PE whilst it doesn’t stop him doing SS, it prevents him getting on many of the courses so a year on he’ll be in the same situation. He is furious with himself that he didn’t get the grades he needed, I’ve suggested he resits PE.
The course at Surrey is amazing but he feels like he has failed if he goes there. In his words, everyone said I wouldn’t get to Loughborough and they were right.

He is extremely hard on himself. He honestly could not have worked harder in his exams and in his eyes it’s all for nothing. He is totally grieving the loss of his dream coupled with the fact that he can’t see a way out from this.

Oh and he’s got Chamberlain accommodation at Birmingham. That in itself was stressful, you have to pick a specific flat and every single one he tried was full of girls. Like 5 girls and he’d be the only boy.
He’s now going to call UEA to try and get them to hold the space until Monday and also call Loughborough and enquire about the dual honours course.
Something is also not adding up with his PE grade, the marks given don’t add up to the total mark when you factor in his practical element. So he is also querying that but school are being spectacularly difficult.
I honestly think if he could get that B to an A he would just have a gap year and try Loughborough again.

@mrsconradfisher I’m amazed he’s so terrified when he’s visited these universities. If he liked Surrey he could have put Surrey and put uea for insurance. Or just out anywhere really! Plus uea is hardly second rate! Anyone would think it was the lowest of the low. It isn’t. You were most concerned about Birmingham so why does it now matter so much that he doesn’t want to go? Uea surely produces decent grads? You often make your own luck in life so it’s not wholly about the minute details of a course. It’s also about you as a person.

Ws live rurally but we had DDs who wanted to get out into cities and navigate life. If he doesn’t, or isn’t ready, then he won’t thrive. There’s a tendency for some Dc to say what parents want to hear. They don’t express their true feelings. I would be amazed if a degree from uea would hold anyone back when wanting further study. Which is a step too far right now. What he does need to do is spread his wings away from a cosseted village. How is he going to get work? Where and what? Uea would at least be a start

Lastly. As parents, you don’t have to give him money in the way you suggest. He could pay hall fees with the loan but you top that up, then pay him monthly. That way it’s a much smaller lump sum from you.

I tend to think your DS is finding every reason to not leave home and he’s not ready. Would he even have gone to Loughborough? Lots of dc get rejected (thousands and thousands from Oxbridge) so getting past that has to happen. It’s disappointing but not the end of the world as other opportunities open up.

A year out might make him still want to continue with his cosy home life. Home is his big hug. Or he might still want uea. So this is a “risk” too. I’d probably favour uea over not thriving in Birmingham. For most though, Birmingham would be a great choice but maybe not in his personal circumstances from rural Norfolk.

@mrsconradfisher Didnt see your latest post. Maybe ask PE specialists on MN? In schools section?

@mrsconradfisher just as a matter of interest, is there a specific reason he's interested in Sports Science? For example, is there a sport he wants to take further, an element of the course he finds fascinating or a job he thinks he'd really like to do in the future?

When DS picked his Birmingham flat he couldn't see the other flatmates , and then after he picked it, e couldn't go back and check. They all had accidentally picked a quiet flat! It's nota perfect system but it's better than lots of unis, going by FB and MN and accommodation in Brum is plentiful.

My impression is there are lots of girls n Chamberlain because it's the nicest, has en suites and is the newest!

Does he drive and have a car mrsC? I'm thinking about sports fixtures and training and stuff at UEA if he commutes. A lot of the sport is quite ad hoc. They whatsapp each other about training, call things off, organise things last minute, knock on doors. There are fixtures willy nilly and things late at night. All of this is partly why sports degrees thrive on campus unis.There are also quite a lot of socials. Unless you and he are OK with him staggering in on a Thursday night drunk (and I know what public transport is like in Norfolk so not sure he wouldn't get excluded form all tis?) then it is something to bear in mind.

Staying at home for uni has its benefits but there are downsides , socially and sports degrees are very much social degrees with their communities and cliques.

The problem is the UEA degree is not Sports Science, it’s Sport, PE and Health. It’s more focused on Sport relating to the social side of things rather than the science side which is what he has wanted to do all along. If it was the same degree then there would be no issue as I know how good UEA is.

I agree that he doesn’t know what he bloody wants. I’m 100% convinced he would have gone to Loughborough.

The marks could be weighted - so the module marks might not add up to grade boundaries which are UMS. Some subjects persist in having these weird magic formulae for working out grade boundaries.

Yes that was exactly what I said yesterday, it was the nicest that’s why it was full of girls!

One thought about the Geog/Sports Science at Lufbra. You said he seems to think it is biased towards Geog. I thought this seemed odd as it's joint honours and if he looks at the programme specification (not just the module titles on the course website page) he will see that. As I suspected, the Y1 PE modules are double-weighted, so although there looks like a lot of Geog titles, they really do take 50/50 in terms of weighting. He would need to investigate this, and the other years of course.

Thank you, yes it’s to do with the weighting. With the weighting applied to his practical element and the talk, he has 5 marks more than he has been given. He needed 6 marks for an A. His practical was moderated so I’m assuming the score can’t change (it was an external moderation where he had to physically go somewhere) but it looks like they have given him the original grade not the moderated one which was lower.

I have just looked at the sports degrees at Surrey. They look exciting to an untrained eye and look high in league tables for subject with great facilities...
Obviously, a complete no from your ds but Surrey doesn't look shoddy!
What are your plans today with ds and decision making?

Remember, applying to Loughborough for his desired degree isn't all about grades (predicted or in hand) . You and he do know this. It is one of the most intensely competitive applications in the whole of the UK and loads of people with 3 A stars get rejected. It would be a big risk. And he'd be gutted all over again.

No I know. It’s the SS PE and coaching one he’d go got there, they bloody offered him that as well and he rejected it. It’s AAB so easier to get into.

I think exactly the same, it looks brilliant.

He has emailed the Head of 6th form and head of PE again this morning, at this point I don’t care if he’s making a nuisance of himself.
He’s calling UEA to hold course until Monday and is then having a final try calling Loughborough before working this morning.

In DS's experience at UEA the students who lived at home regularly crashed for the night in flats on campus after nights at the LCR.

BUCS fixtures usually have coaches laid on by the uni, but if he participates in a sport that has other fixtures then usually a handful of Y2 or Y3 students drive and the others pay the petrol. Depending on the standard played at some of the fixtures could be 3 hours away though as UEA isn't exactly central!