DD wants to do languages but we worry

[Homerenovation]

My daughter wants to go to university and she is taking French, Maths and Psych A-levels. She just got a B in French in recent year 12 exams (following a grade 9 at GCSE) and she says she wants to study languages at Uni (the school will predict an A in French). However she got AA in Maths and Psychology exams (and will be predicted A stars in those two). I am worried that she is focusing in on her weakest subject (French) and it is not vocational either. Also We have been told that modern languages degrees are full of native speakers and that the year abroad is now so difficult and expensive if you don’t have an EU passport. I would like DD to take a year out to rethink languages and explore Maths/Psych/STEM but would like advice please

Ah thank you

@poetryandwine I think it's because the Erasmus grant hasn't been adequately replaced by Turing, and middle income families are finding that they're having to pay out more and more to support.

Working alongside studying is fine, but depending which university your original degree is with, students might need to achieve certain grades in the modules they're taking in another language, and they'll have essays and exams etc and might find working on top of that a struggle. Other universities might only require their outgoing students to achieve a certain number of credits over the year, which might be more manageable.

There's still the work placement option which lots of universities offer, and that is paid, obviously.

So potentially:
Student maintenance loan
Bursary from home uni
Turing stipend
British council/work placement salary
Other earned income eg from tutoring

But the amounts of the above depend on parental income unfortunately.

I think a lot of people on here (possibly ones that don’t have degrees themselves) don’t realise that most degrees lead to a variety of careers, even careers that aren’t directly linked to the degree. Of the people I was at uni with that studied music, one works in sound production and one is a music teacher, but equally one is a barrister, one is an accountant, one is a consultant. For most roles you just need ‘a degree’ and it doesn’t matter what it’s in so you might as well pick one you’ll enjoy!

Thanks, @BreezySunnyDay

I am not pretending it is optimal, far from it. Ot that I find it okay: I don’t. But it can be done. Students from lower income families have always just got on with it. My students mostly came back much more mature and better organised snd with higher marks in consequence. Regardless of whether they needed to work.

Yup just a tad bonkers given that ‘learning Latin and Greek’ in a Classics degree is a means to an end: to be able to read and analyse some of the greatest literature ever written in the original language.
Then there’s the history, culture, philosophy etc…

I hear ya @ealingwestmum 😊

Couldn't agree more, @ealingwestmum . I think these days STEM subjects are pushed so hard that people lose sight of the fact that humanities, languages etc are still highly valued by lots of employers, and that STEM is not for everyone. I feel we're heading for a world with a surfeit of second rate STEM grads who could have been first rate humanities/arts/language grads.

How about something like this? You'd still need to find the cost of the flights upfront (or your DD would from her loan) but if she took the 'work abroad' option she'd be earning for the time she's away as well as being fully immersed in the language and gaining business skills and experience, and come out of it with possibly a more useful degree than straight MFL (although as others have said MFL is fine for many graduate schemes - I'm a lawyer and plenty of my past and present colleagues did languages).

https://www.bath.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate-2023/business-and-management/bsc-international-management-and-modern-languages-french-with-study-or-work-abroad/#study_abroad_or_placement

I agree with letting her do what she wants, and with MFL being very much an academic humanities degree, not just about learning to speak a language.

If she doesn’t like literature and culture, there are some degrees which mainly prioritise language learning; they tend to be the ones offering 3 languages with 2 ab initio.

If linguistics seems interesting, she might want to go for linguistics with French, rather than French and linguistics, to have more focus on linguistics options. Warwick and York both offer this, and are well regarded, but I’m sure there are others - and I think York’s is just 3 years with no year abroad.

If she’s thinking more broadly with her other A levels, she might be interested in York’s Language, logic and communication, or Oxford’s PPL (psychology, philosophy and linguistics).

@poetryandwine oh absolutely, it's hugely maturing, even apart from the language gains.

For me personally it was the best year of my life 😂
My DD also had a really great experience.
I feel very sorry for anyone that's forced to forgo it due to financial reasons, it's a real shame. But I think there are ways of making it work for everyone.

@whichwhatnow DD has looked at that course at Bath. But although uni websites still say work placements are an option on the year abroad they really aren’t anymore unless you have a European passport - Brits just can’t get the working visas.

Thank you @villagelite - three languages could be a great idea for DD!

Is she absolutely set on going to Uni? I might be wrong of course, but I’m assuming she will come out of it with a hefty student debt. I studied MFL (admittedly a few years ago) and although I loved my degree I have only just finished paying off my student loan and I do wonder whether it was worth it.

It might not be what you had in mind but has she thought about an apprenticeship or further training that would allow her to work at the same time? Something with a finance company with offices in France? She could then get sponsored to work in Paris, which - frankly - is the quickest way to get her French parfait and get a whole lot of fun and money at the same time.

I went to Oxbridge and am steering my kids away from Uni unless it’s vocational.

Ah of course, I didn't think of that - bloody Brexit!

I find that pretty offensive actually. I did French and music degree, it was what I enjoyed and what I was good at.

I don’t work in a field related to either. But I have a good job, and wouldn’t have got to where I am now if I didn’t have a 2(i) degree from a top university. it happened to be in subjects I enjoyed but it didn’t really matter what it was in.

@Homerenovation surely they are still an option with the student visa, as others have said on this thread? Up to 20 hours a week?

This is an article about students working in France:

www.timeshighereducation.com/student/advice/working-student-visa-france

@StillWantingADog don't be offended, put it down to ignorance of those who have no idea about the skills gained in those degrees and the requirements of the graduate job market.

I have a friend who takes every opportunity to say what a waste of time languages are and no way would she let her children study them at university. This knowing full well what my background is and that i've had a very successful career, unrelated to my degree. Her DS is planning on studying geology. Go figure!

@OMGitsnotgood actually geologists have excellent employment opportunities.

Although I am a STEM academic I am on record on this thread and elsewhere that it is of the greatest importance for young people to choose their own paths. If I did not realise that training in the liberal arts does so much for critical thinking, and critical thinking is perhaps the key skill for numerous jobs, I might not feel quite so strongly on this point.

@OMGitsnotgood actually geologists have excellent employment opportunities.

That's exactly what i meant - that she can't see that there are any career opportunities for languages graduates but can for geologists. Not everyone studying geology will enter geology related careers, the same way that not all language graduates will enter language related careers

Maybe we are extra stingy parents, but we just gave DS the same amount for his year abroad as we did for the rest of his degree. He worked it out somehow. Perhaps he didn't eat very much for a year.

That was both post-Brexit and mid-pandemic, for added difficulty points.

Yep @Tingalingle it was definitely our fault as parents and my son for being greedy 🙄

for British Council you don’t need a working visa; there’s a loophole and you can use a student visa. It’s not impossible for them to get a working visa now, but it is harder.
Exeter has a nice 3-languages degree and also a Flexible Combined Honours degree that would 3nable Maths.

So you work alongside other non stem graduates. Presumably your psychology grad friend could have done a job like yours then but chose to do something else. I'm not sure what the point is that you are trying to make

Oh lord, it wasn’t some sort of criticism! I think he genuinely was pretty skint by the end of the year given the extra costs involved. He’s an independent young sod and wouldn’t necessarily have told us.